Comments on [Birth Mother,] First Mother Forum: High number of adoptions in the US is a national d...

About the percentage, I just bought "Kinderen...

2012-02-14T18:48:24.011-05:00

About the percentage, I just bought "Kinderen die niet konden blijven" by R. Hoksbergen (2011), it is the history of Dutch adoption, and if it does not contain everything from the meaning of Mei-Ling to the Dutch-Scandinavian "Surrendering children is NOT DONE"-attitude, it comes pretty close in its 600 pages.

Oh I made a mistake, "1259 placements in 1974" should have been 1259 finalizations of adoptions. The placements started to drop in/after 1969/1970. Finalization can take a couple of years.

But the book also contains superiot information about surrender rates: According to Van Oenen, 1970, whose research population consisted was formed by 598 women giving birth in an unwedded state in the years 1963 and 1964 in the women's clinic of the Amsterdam Academic Hospital, representative of the the 1415 doing that in those years in Amsterdam.
23% surrendered in the end, though Hoksbergen is somewhat unclear about whether this is all ladies who made the choice to surrender, or only the girls who did not change their decision to baby keeping. Well over half did not.
Both resulting numbers fit well with Dutch national statistics for that period, 3,000-4,000 births out of wedlock, 10-20% surrendered for adoption.

31% of the 598 kept the child and were going to get married.

@Sandy, I agree with you..I personally knew, or k...

2012-02-02T12:36:04.194-05:00

@Sandy,

I agree with you..I personally knew, or knew of about 8 or 9 girls who surrendered infants during the 1960s(not counting myself) at the time that it happened.

They came from varying backgrounds..some were poor, some middle-class, and some upper-middle. And they had no choice.

What I recall of that time was that the "shot-gun wedding" seemed to be the most popular solution to unwed pregnancy. But, that also depended on family preference and support for the marriage.

A childhood friend of mine became an out of wedlock father in 1967, at age 20..which was still underage in those days in our state. He wanted very much to marry his child's mother..but was having trouble gaining access to mother and baby.

As I recall, the underage mother and baby were living at her family's home, but her family would not allow him to see her or the child.

I don't know if they were able to work things out or not. I have often wondered what happened to all of them....

To adopted parent anon Jan 30 @ 5:28. Thank you ...

2012-02-01T23:21:01.591-05:00

To adopted parent anon Jan 30 @ 5:28. Thank you for your thoughts. I love it when adoptive parents tell me what to do and how to behave. As an adoptee, of course would not be capable of having my own thoughts and opinions. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy day to patronize me and the others who have years of experience in this.

I am just like a doll for you to act upon. OH but wait, I am grown up lady who pushes buttons on a computer all day long in exchange for money.

I have raised a child to adulthood already and do lots of things in lots of places all the time, so young lady I would like you to get that chocolate of your face get in there and clean that room up if you want your iPhone back otherwise no internet for you!

Joy-Joy-Joy-Joy-Joy-Joy

Sandy, Whether the non-surrender rate was actuall...

2012-02-01T01:09:13.250-05:00

Sandy,

Whether the non-surrender rate was actually 80 percent or 20 percent, the tide did not hit the women who kept their babies. It wasn't that they were able to resist the pressure; they weren't pressured. Their families stepped in and said "absolutely we're going to keep this baby." I know several mothers whose mothers swooped in and took their grandchild.

As Ricki Solinger points out, decisions about adoption were greatly affected by race and class. I suspect there were many white girls, likely poor in rural areas, where adoption wasn't even on the radar. The adoption industry targeted middle-class white girls and their families because there were takers for their babies.

The industry was likely motivated by profit but also the belief that both these mothers and their children were better off.

Seems a bit tacky to hit up your friends for the f...

2012-01-31T23:24:11.688-05:00

Seems a bit tacky to hit up your friends for the funds to pay for an adoption. A so called 1%er would not need to do that even if the adoption did cost $250,000. That's not much money to someone in the top 1%.

I just printed out the report cited in the post an...

2012-01-31T23:15:24.619-05:00

I just printed out the report cited in the post and am about to pore over it, but I just wanted to make a quick comment about the low relinquishment figure for the BSE. I think it is imperative that we insist on the most accurate figures possible and check the methodology as much as we can, particularly when they deviate so much from what we know to be true.

One of the statements that Baby Scoop mothers have consistently made is that we didn't have a choice. With a rate of 80-90% that Solinger quotes, it is easy to understand that there could easily be a variant due to mothers who place their children in foster care in an attempt to find a way to keep them, only to end up surrendering later. I knew several women who used that in a desperate effort to keep their child.

However, a figure as low as the one cited in the article 19-20% pretty much makes a lie of the claims of mothers that we had no choice but to surrender. I know I certainly didn't have a choice, and wanted desperately to keep my son. But, if then 80% of women were able to buck the tide and keep their children, the ones who surrender come off again as weak-willed, impressionable and that we really didn't want our children. I dispute that. I believe that the figures are much higher, and I would think perhaps in the real world MUCH higher, even, than the ones that Solinger quoted. I know one woman who kept her child, with her parents support in a very small town in Central IL.

@cb When I read the lines about the "under-r...

2012-01-31T19:20:33.433-05:00

@cb

When I read the lines about the "under-reporting" in the pregnancy and relinquishment survey..I nearly laughed..not in humor, though.

In 1973, I feared the government and any researcher or official person learning of my pregnancy and relinquishment.

Although I was speaking about my relinquishment experience with trusted people, I would not have told a "researcher." No way!!!!

Another problem with the survey is that the population studied for "relinquishment" data consisted only of never-married women.

Many, maybe most, of us "baby scoop " mothers married soon after we surrendered our babies.... and so we wouldn't have even been part of such a study survey. Most baby scoop mothers were probably married by 1973.

So I question how a population of "never-married women" is considered a representative group for relinquishment study.If the typical mother who relinquishes her child gets married soon afterwards(like we were told to do back then...lol), then maybe the research was focused too narrowly....or in the wrong direction.

I do realize that not everyone gets married..but tying relinquishment to marital status is odd.
It just raises some questions...

Wonderful, Barbara. Let us know how it goes. Here...

2012-01-31T19:09:15.589-05:00

Wonderful, Barbara. Let us know how it goes.

Here's a Guide to Civic Engagement from the Portland "Oregonian" you might find helpful. Although written for folks in Oregon, there is some excellent information about making a difference in the legislature.

Thanks, Jane for the suggestion to work on adoptio...

2012-01-31T18:28:54.715-05:00

Thanks, Jane for the suggestion to work on adoption law in my state. A man from church is a legislator. I taught his daughter Sunday school. I will try and get an appointment with him. I'm from Illinois and we are one of the "bad" states you list on the website. It feels good for this mother of loss to adoption to have a mission.

2012-01-31T16:52:00.774-05:00

This comment has been removed by the author.

Sorry, I meant Domestic Infant Adoption when I sai...

2012-01-31T16:39:27.859-05:00

Sorry, I meant Domestic Infant Adoption when I said DIA.

On page 5, the CDC explain their methodology in working out the figure of 19.3%

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad306.pdf

Page 5.

"Table 5
shows the percent of children born to never-married women under 45 years of age who were relinquished for adoption in several time periods. Information on children relinquished for adoption was obtained from two sources within the 1995 survey. The first source was the

questionnaire series that asked for the baby’s name for each of the woman’s births; in response to this question, some women, usually those who never named their babies, volunteered that they had placed the baby for adoption. A second source was a question later in the interview asking the woman directly if she had ever placed a child for adoption. This method of obtaining relinquishment information differs slightly from

previous years of the survey, which are also used to produce the trend data shown in table 5. In 1982 and 1988, relinquishment was obtained from women’s reports of the status of each biological child who was not living in her household at the time of the interview. Children reported as living with adoptive parents were considered to have been relinquished. Relinquishment may be underreported in a survey such as this, as acknowledged in previous studies (12). However, there is no reason to believe that underreporting would vary systematically by survey year due to the questions used to obtain the relinquishment information. Underreporting would most likely occur at the point of enumeration of all pregnancies, rather than at the reporting of the status of already-identified pregnancies that resulted in live births. The method of ascertaining pregnancies was consistent across survey years. Despite probable underreporting, the NSFG remains an important and exclusive source of national level data that permits individual-level analysis of the determinants and consequences of relinquishment."

To me, the "underreporting would most likely occur at the point of enumeration of all pregnancies" is an interesting line. Do you think any of those first mums from the 60s etc who specifically kept her child a secret is then likely to admit even in a confidential survey to even having had that child?

Thanks for the info, h2o_girl. I didn't hear O...

2012-01-31T14:39:10.984-05:00

Thanks for the info, h2o_girl. I didn't hear Obama's speech and was not aware that he was babbling about adoption again. We responded to his 2009 adoption promotion speech at Notre Dame with a post: "Pres. Obama, Adoption is not only available, it's being crammed down our throats."

Ironically, Obama's father may have pushed to have him adopted. President Obama's mother making an adoption plan? Unthinkable

Kitta, this is late, but thanks for that source. I...

2012-01-31T14:23:50.887-05:00

Kitta, this is late, but thanks for that source. It was just what I was looking for.

Mei-Ling said, "Ironically enough, take out a...

2012-01-31T14:20:28.364-05:00

Mei-Ling said, "Ironically enough, take out adoption and infertility, and you may as well grow a horn on your head if you so much as talk about leading a childless life.

Because apparently parenthood is the only way to be happy."

Mei-Ling, I heard too many indoctrination speeches like that, so I got the hell out of Dodge and changed coasts, jobs, and found a new circle of friends.

Today, at least half of my husband's and my closest friends are childless, almost all by choice. It's unfortunate that you've run too frequently into the happy-dappy (whoever coined that phrase, I love it!) parenthood-is-everything mentality. Because, of course, it's not.

Becoming parents was a conscious choice for us that we were fortunate to be able to bring off in my thirties, and going child-free was the choice made by all (but one, that I know of) of our childless friends.

I owe them an enormous debt of friendship for the years in which they were treading on Legos, having adult conversations interrupted, and attending birthday parties held at bowling alleys!

By the way, your comments are marvelously insightful. A tip o' the Dodger cap, as we used to say back home...

@Theodore yes, the shotgun wedding stats would hav...

2012-01-31T14:16:55.697-05:00

@Theodore
yes, the shotgun wedding stats would have an affect if the weddings came after the births, and if the research was based on birth certificate data. But even birth record data can be misleading. Parents can be living together, but the father may not be on the BC. Common-law marriage has always existed and still does in some states(it is legal where I live).

And, birth records have not always been accurate anyway.

And you are so correct about the way that different countries view social issues and data. The adoption figures in the USA are uncertain, and no one really knows how many children have ever been "relinquished."
The US government does, however, keep figures with regard to children adopted out of public foster care, but the private US adoption industry has always been very secretive.

However, the numbers of teenage and premarital pregnancies can be tracked in the USA. There is research. . The Guttmacher Institute(part of Planned Parenthood) has articles and figures and a lot of research from the 1950s that show a much higher rate of pregnancy in teenagers as well as teen marriage..in those days.
The shot-gun wedding was quite a common practice with US teenagers back then. I knew quite a few who married in that way.

But, I also recall, as a child/teenager growing up then, that teen marriage was acceptable...in the 50s, and 60s. And that there was no stigma attached to being a teenaged parent, as long as you were married. The legalization or societal condonement of the marital relationship made the pregnancy and family relationship "legitimate."

I only have one friend (outside of adoption reform...

2012-01-31T13:41:43.862-05:00

I only have one friend (outside of adoption reform circles) who is a birth mother. We were becoming friends through work when I spilled the beans at lunch over Bloody Marys. She said, Me to.

We often remember that lunch fondly.

Yes egads, I know all these adoptive parents and the number is growing all the time. Okay, I'm older and I do know a lot of people who are younger but still, I ought to be meeting some of the first mothers of my generation someplace.

I am in the wrong cohort: women in my social peer group had abortions (some more than one); and then I am friends with many women a decade or so younger who have careers, and they put off having children...until they turned to adoption. That unfortunately is the way of the world.

The Pill ushered in a new era of freedom for women, but it also led to thirtysomething infertility. Which was always there.

DIA? How about Domestic Infant Adoption? The Bet...

2012-01-31T12:35:07.698-05:00

DIA?

How about Domestic Infant Adoption?
The Bethany folks use it a lot for that.

The confusion with Vieetnamese and Kiwi depatments is understandable though.

Lorraine - your comment about running into the mot...

2012-01-31T11:15:20.127-05:00

Lorraine - your comment about running into the mother in the supermarket goes along with what I was thinking as I was reading the comments. I know probably 20+ APs and only a couple of those had open adoptions, even though everyone likes to say that open adoptions are the norm these days. In the open adoptions, all of the mothers live in another state. It's much easier to be "open" when there's no real chance of having a day-to-day relationship and all you have to do is send the occasional picture or email.

In one case, the APs have two adopted children and only one of the mothers has continued to have contact with the child, by which I mean that the mother sends birthday presents, etc. I don't think there is regular communication. The APs feel that this is too difficult for their other child so they try to keep the contact to a minimum. While I can understand that it would be incredibly difficult for the child whose mother does not send him gifts, I don't think the solution is for their other child to have less contact with his first mother!

While I know so many APs, I only know 3 first mothers in real life and two of those I met while looking online for support after being unable to find any in-person support groups for mothers. It's amazing how many support groups there are for APs though! I can think of only one adoptee other than my daughter that I know in real life as well. There are probably more but they just don't seem to talk about it as much as APs do.

Google tells me it's Department of Internal Af...

2012-01-31T10:07:22.292-05:00

Google tells me it's Department of Internal Affairs and not a typical adoption.

Regarding the cost of Gladney adopitons: One cou...

2012-01-31T10:06:11.827-05:00

Regarding the cost of Gladney adopitons:

One couple who adopted from Gladney (opps--forgot to include them among the adoptions in my real life) held a cocktail party fund-raiser among their very wealthy friends in the one percent, as they themselves are. They would not have done that to send the agency $25k. So I would guess that they were looking to donate more to go to the head of the line. I don't know them well enough to ask if the adoption is open...but I do know their good friend was shocked when they decided to move to Texas, where the wife was from. "The birth mother could be from Texas--why would they want to move there?" was their friend's attitude.

Why indeed? They might run into her in the supermarket.

DIA? Anybody know what that means?

2012-01-31T09:58:45.724-05:00

DIA?

Anybody know what that means?

"Had I been unable to bear children, I decide...

2012-01-31T09:36:26.824-05:00

"Had I been unable to bear children, I decided, I would have gotten therapy specifically to make my peace with infertility, and either investigated adopting through foster care, or not parenting at all."

Ironically enough, take out adoption and infertility, and you may as well grow a horn on your head if you so much as talk about leading a childless life.

Because apparently parenthood is the only way to be happy.

A few comments: The amount of financial support t...

2012-01-30T23:38:47.215-05:00

A few comments:

The amount of financial support the UK gives single mothers is massive compared to the US. They get free public housing and an allowance for every child. Other Western European countries are even more generous. The UK is also much more restrictive in regards to adoptive parents. I believe the home study is conducted by a government social worker. Egg donation is very rare in the UK because it is illegal to buy eggs there.

$250,000 seems very high for an uncontested adoption even with bribary (a contested adoption could easily cost that much).

I think it is true that most couples try the infertility clinic before adoption. However, there are plenty of young infertile couple even if they are not the majority of IVF customers/adopter . It is also normally the wife who wants to adopt, the husband if left to his own devices probably wouldn't.

Finally, there are good reasons why PAPs might prefer a new born. Attachment disorders are quite common in older adopted children. Not everyone is equipped to deal with that including some who adopt older children. If a child is going to be adopted anyway it's probably better done sooner rather than later in most cases.

LD: "In countries where social services are m...

2012-01-30T21:45:36.438-05:00

LD: "In countries where social services are more readily available for indigent families or mothers, in countries where adoption is not a for-profit institution, stranger adoptions--such as you seem to be involved in--go way, way down. And that is in the "best interests of the child."

Very true. I live in one of those countries.

LD:"Though I am far from high income, I live in the kind of world you know: 3 Chinese by friends; 2 by cousin's kids; 2 not-close friends; 4 mere acquaintances; 1 Nepalese; 2 by neighbors, and a whole bunch more by friends of friends I see once a year or so. Plus there's the two friends of my own who are adopted (neither finished a search), or any of the friends I have met because of adoption.

I don't know of any adoptions that are "open.""

I only know 4 adult adoptees IRL (apart from asiblings) and know of nobody who has adopted a child in the last 20 years. The youngest adoptees I know are in their 20s (one being DIA, the other an international adoption but not of the usual kind). None of the 4 were open but I think 2 were semi-open. However, one of the younger adoptees is in full reunion with her bmom and at an art exhibition she had recently, both mums had pride of place. The other 20 year is autistic and I am unsure how much he knows about his adoption (though he is a different race from his amum so he probably has some idea but may not know all the ins and outs)

I know quite a few single mums who are great mums and they would have been just the type of women who in a different era and country might have relinquished their children. It is all down to support and the nature and timing of the counselling. Counselling women about adoption (which always seems to be of an overwhelmingly positive nature)in the early stages of a pregnancy when she is vulnerable should never be done as far as I'm concerned.

I was so sad to hear Obama include the phrase &quo...

2012-01-30T18:46:54.080-05:00

I was so sad to hear Obama include the phrase "promote adoption" in his speech on the anniversary of Roe vs. Wade. I know there is no way adoption can be completely eradicated, but "promote" it? UGH. Here is the quote:

".... While this is a sensitive and often divisive issue- no matter what our views, we must stay united in our determination to prevent unintended pregnancies, support pregnant woman and mothers, reduce the need for abortion, encourage healthy relationships, and promote adoption. ...."

The rest of the sentence I totally agree with.