tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post2345545061008300622..comments2024-03-14T17:59:30.786-04:00Comments on [Birth Mother] First Mother Forum: First Mother Forum Mission Statement: What We Think About AdoptionLorraine Duskyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-86894296375722292042011-02-25T14:49:09.080-05:002011-02-25T14:49:09.080-05:00Korin.
I am sorry to read you were cut off. As you...Korin.<br />I am sorry to read you were cut off. As you know, this happens all too frequently. We need to work together for adoption reform including laws to make open adoptions enforceable. One chanhe that should be made is to allow birth mothers to recover their attorney fees if they have to sue to enforce an open adoption agreement.Jane Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05669797756463841249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-17605623863516050822011-02-25T14:20:05.665-05:002011-02-25T14:20:05.665-05:00I am a first mother, My adoption was once open but...I am a first mother, My adoption was once open but has now been pretty much closed. My daughters adoptive parents cut my visitations and went from being in my life, to not wanting anything to do with me. They never let me discuss it before hand, they just one day decided to cut contact. <br />I am absolutely heartbroken. It has been 7 years since I relinquished my rights and im still grieving, more so since they cut visitiation and contact. <br />I blog about it now as well. you can find my blog here<br />http://faceofamother.blogspot.com/<br /><br />I must admit, your blog has made me realize that my story is so common, and that im not alone. I thank you so much for all of your blogs and advice. Its truely helping me feel better about myself, and being a first mother.Korinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03378746058868655691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-37824963436948920372011-02-15T22:58:30.087-05:002011-02-15T22:58:30.087-05:00Anon,
It's sad that you were so mislead by th...Anon,<br /><br />It's sad that you were so mislead by the LDS Church as to believe you were nothing more than a vessel to bring your son's soul to earth. Common sense should tell you that if God wanted the a-parents to have your child, He would have put him in the a-mother's uterus.<br /><br />It blows my mind to think any mother would be proud of giving her child to strangers. Apparently the LDS adoption workers didn't tell you how important you are to your child. All adoption experts agree that children should stay with their bio families if possible. It's tragic that your son will grow up with people who don't look like him, think like him, or share his interests because you were seduced by LDS Social Services into giving him up.<br /><br />The adoption rate has no effect on the child abuse rate. More infant adoption doesn't translate into less child abuse. In fact it may increase child abuse since adoptive parents may have difficulty dealing with adoption-related behavior problems. <br /><br />Babies who really need families such as babies born to drug addicted or mentally ill women often don't get placed and end up in foster care. People who adopt often want a premium baby (healthy white girl whose bio parents have college educations) and are willing to pay a premium price for these babies.Jane Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05669797756463841249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-72470036005164446562011-02-15T18:40:32.794-05:002011-02-15T18:40:32.794-05:00Dear birthMOM,
I am not misinformed. Less than th...Dear birthMOM,<br /><br />I am not misinformed. Less than three weeks ago I had a meeting with Brother Olsen from LDSFS in Richmond Virginia. He informed me that not only do mothers who relinquish through LDSFS have a right to FREE LIFETIME counseling services, but ANY mother who has relinquished. Whether or not a birth mother actually <i>receives</i> said counseling services is an entirely different matter. As well all know, just because someone is promised something, doesn't mean it is followed through with. Bottom line: Birth mothers are entitled to lifetime counseling by LDSFS. Whether this promise is delivered upon is highly doubtful for the very reasons you explain. <br /><br />Brother Olsen and I actually argued over this very point, with me saying essentially what you are asserting. It ended when Brother Olsen told me I was calling him a liar for saying precisely what you are saying. (See http://bit.ly/fzaQcS for a more in-depth discussion about what happened when I met with him on January 28, 2011). <br /><br />Other than that, I agree with you completely. LDSFS treats "its" birth mothers horribly and "its" birth fathers even worse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-12697220699208053552011-02-15T17:18:33.344-05:002011-02-15T17:18:33.344-05:00@melyynda - you have been misinformed. LDSFS absol...@melyynda - you have been misinformed. LDSFS absolutely does NOT offer birthparents free counseling for life. In fact birth parents have to fight to get any acknowledgment from the caseworkers after placement, as LDSFS is understaffed, and overworked and geared towards the adoptive couple, their true clients. Its a joke trying to get the few counseling sessions that one is actually promised post placement. LDSFS, imo, treats birth mothers quite horribly. I'm def not a fan of that agency and i dont support them, but i couldnt help correcting your misinformation to 'katie in slc'. (not trying to open a whole new can of worms)birthMOMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11479996077788889914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-21504273064257601562011-02-15T16:54:08.340-05:002011-02-15T16:54:08.340-05:00Dear Katie from SLC,
I am the adult version of th...Dear Katie from SLC,<br /><br />I am the adult version of the child you gave up. My natural mother was not my transportation to earth, she is my MOTHER. She never got over losing me and I never go over being given away. It is about far more than love. No matter how much my APs loved me it never made up for the loss of my OWN mother. I am glad you have access to lifetime counseling. You will need it when the brainwashing wears off and the lightbulb goes on.Robinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-25854095524143859182011-02-15T16:46:29.778-05:002011-02-15T16:46:29.778-05:00Katie...
When the time comes that you outgrow the ...Katie...<br />When the time comes that you outgrow the denial and all the lies you have told yourself about this being the best option you will understand what some of us here are talking about. When the truth finally sinks in you will realize that the abuse of you and your child came from those you thought loved/cared for you and your child.<br />I wish you well, it is a long, sad road that you have started to travel.tryingtohealnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-34487965487739956062011-02-15T16:33:05.877-05:002011-02-15T16:33:05.877-05:00Dear Katie from SLC -
I won't spend the time ...Dear Katie from SLC -<br /><br />I won't spend the time taking apart your argument because (a) it won't do any good right now and (b) there are others much more adept at it.<br /><br />Let's just say I know how it feels to desperately cling to any shred of hope that you did the right thing through relinquishing your child to people "more qualified". However, the passage of time will force you to unpack this experience in your life...and when you are left shattered and broken, I will be here to help you put the pieces together again. Not only will I be here for you, but so will others who have walked down this path much, much, much further than you. In your innocence and youthfulness, you simply cannot comprehend what lies in front of you. <br /><br />And I promise I will never say, "I told you so" when you call out for help.<br /><br />Melynda<br /><br />P.S. I assume from your location and rhetorical stance you are LDS, as am I. I also assume you most likely "placed" through LDSFS. Have you ever stopped and wondered why on earth LDSFS would offer you a LIFETIME of free counseling? Do you think it might be because they realize you will NEVER get over losing your child and that you will need therapeutic interventions for the REST OF YOUR LIFE? LDSFS doesn't offer this service to children of single mothers (who are supposedly so damaged by being raised by a teen mom), not to adoptees, not to drug addicts, not to sex addicts, not to child molesters - they <i>only</i> offer it to birth mothers. For the rest of their lives. <br /><br />Think about that for a moment....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-16164097325657249202011-02-15T12:00:43.915-05:002011-02-15T12:00:43.915-05:00Are you serious??? Come on! You people are the rea...Are you serious??? Come on! You people are the reason that so many babies are abused, teenage girls go on welfare and the FAMILY is being destroyed!!! Babies deserve the world the best opportunities ever!! It is not their fault that they are born to unwed mothers, or poor mothers. It is not a SAD reason to put a baby in the home of a loving mother and father. Who are financially stable, and don't have to rely on government financial aid.<br /><br />It makes me sick to see 15, 16, 17 year old girl having babies, and trying to raise them (I say trying, because their sucess rates speak for themselves. ).<br /><br />You are old. You are out of touch and don't actually have any experience with modern adoption. I placed a baby 18 months ago. I am happy. He is happy. He is loved. I know he is loved. I am not his mother, I was his transportation to earth. <br /><br />I wish you could see the harm you are doing. <br /><br />Maybe you need to meet with modern day, YOUNG birth mothers. Not 60 year old women who felt coerced. Today there is no coersion. <br /><br />I hope and pray that you don't have as much power as you think you do. <br />-Katie from SLCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-85687466323676123632010-12-15T16:52:49.141-05:002010-12-15T16:52:49.141-05:00Guardianship as proposed by anti-adoption people i...Guardianship as proposed by anti-adoption people is not about the child, but about the adults, in this case the natural parents, retaining rights. Just as sealed records are not about the child, but about the adoptive parent's ownership being perpetually protected. Once again the child is a pawn between adults fighting over who owns him and what he owes them.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-20975233609977648402010-12-15T12:12:38.843-05:002010-12-15T12:12:38.843-05:00"Guardianship is equivalent to long term baby..."Guardianship is equivalent to long term babysitting."<br />And the child could end up with no sense of family.Robinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-770533933744840272010-12-15T10:35:23.926-05:002010-12-15T10:35:23.926-05:00Outstanding. Very well done statement. This AP cou...Outstanding. Very well done statement. This AP could not agree more.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-37556035595897883042010-12-15T06:47:23.478-05:002010-12-15T06:47:23.478-05:00"The idea that a child should not call the pa..."The idea that a child should not call the parents who raise him Mom and Dad is mean-spirited and shows who the whole guardianship idea is really about, the natural parents retaining rights and titles, not what might be better for the child. "<br /><br />I totally agree with this quote. When put into this context it's really about the birth-parents retaining the rights and privileges of a parent without doing the hard work. This is why adoption is in place now: if you can't be responsible for raising a child and expect to have "say" in how they are raised when you're not doing the work, then place the child up for adoption. <br /><br />Guardianship is equivalent to long term babysitting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-43390043446657918352010-12-14T19:55:21.757-05:002010-12-14T19:55:21.757-05:00Birth and adoption records information UK:
http://...Birth and adoption records information UK:<br />http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizen<br />sandrights/Registeringlifeevents/Birthandadoption<br />records/Adoptionrecords/DG_175567<br /><br />Search and reunion information UK:<br />http://www.adoptionsearchreunion.org.uk/<br />default.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-52543689115609328242010-12-14T19:55:15.925-05:002010-12-14T19:55:15.925-05:00"I think this resilience and flexibility that..."I think this resilience and flexibility that we often hear of is actually code for inarticulate and powerless."<br /><br />I think so, too.Mei Linghttp://adoptionparadox.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-35259694727587123442010-12-14T19:54:43.175-05:002010-12-14T19:54:43.175-05:00"Adoption is not about sharing a child, adopt..."Adoption is not about sharing a child, adoption is about assuming as child as if he/she were your own."<br /><br />Following up on this:<br /><br />As much as the sentimentality exists that adoptive parents and birth parents can "share" a child, it doesn't really work.<br /><br />Only two parents actually raise the child (obviously...?). <br /><br />Only two parents have the rights and the power of privilege. I see some adoptive parents who say "Of course we'd let our daughter have a relationship with xx birthparent."<br /><br />It is easy to say that. So very easy. Adoptive parents have all the social power and privilege.<br /><br />An example...<br /><br />I've had some people tell me my adoptive parents were connected to my birth parents. Ha. Right.<br /><br />No, they are not and never will be. If it weren't for me, they wouldn't have any association with each other at all. I am like a ping-pong ball. Can't be with one set without leaving a void in the other, right?Mei Linghttp://adoptionparadox.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-40169447419874225942010-12-14T17:50:10.992-05:002010-12-14T17:50:10.992-05:00More and more these comments sound theoretical and...More and more these comments sound theoretical and as if they have nothing to do with the child. Anything that makes the child feel like less than a full member of the adoptive family will be harmful.<br /><br />@Joy,<br />"In response to children's flexibility, I know of no adult who is not dealing with difficulties spawned in childhood. Not one."<br /><br />Yes, everyone has issues from childhood but adoptees do have separate difficult issues on top of what children raised in their bio-families do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-25489972947816220012010-12-14T07:40:31.808-05:002010-12-14T07:40:31.808-05:00Mei Ling, I think what we are talking about is wha...Mei Ling, I think what we are talking about is what we would like adoption to be once it is cleaned up, not what it is today, which is not acceptable. <br /><br />What I meant was that legal adoption could still occur without name changes, with a certificate of adoption rather than an amended BC, leaving the OBC open as is done in England, and with family members staying in touch. But the adoptive parents would still be the parents with full parental rights, not guardians or caretakers.<br /><br />Those advocating replacing all adoption with guardianship want an arrangement where all parental rights are never severed, which is not feasible for all placements. It could work for some, not for all.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-13794532963387149622010-12-14T03:39:03.983-05:002010-12-14T03:39:03.983-05:00one more thing:
In response to children's fl...one more thing: <br /><br />In response to children's flexibility, I know of no adult who is not dealing with difficulties spawned in childhood. Not one.<br /><br />I think this resilience and flexibility that we often hear of is actually code for inarticulate and powerless. <br /><br />The very idea that you can introduce abandonment at a certain age, or through a certain agency and it will be fine, the very idea.<br /><br />Self-serving that.joyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15658928829424953809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-8476005588004734642010-12-14T02:50:49.487-05:002010-12-14T02:50:49.487-05:00"Adopted people do not have one set of parent..."Adopted people do not have one set of parents, they have two, hopefully both families loving them and considering them part of their family, but in different ways, and each respecting the other's contribution."<br /><br />That's just a theoretical sentimentality, which is not socially accepted because it is a living contradiction."<br /><br />Stomping my feet and clapping for Mei-Ling. <br /><br />I am an adoptee who has never believed in, as wonderful as it sounds, wards or permanent guardians being a replacement for adoption or a more beneficial response to the plight of the child without parents. <br /><br />At the same time, I don't believe in the ooky-feel-good of more parents to love a child and the pressing goo that there is a nice way to adopt-out a child. I would like to hear Ms. Romanchhik's son's thoughts. I should predicate that with unguarded and honest thoughts.<br /><br />I think those sentiments are two sides of the same coin. The coin being the adoptee.<br /><br />Adoption is not about sharing a child, adoption is about assuming as child as if he/she were your own. Just like a highway or a dog. It is about ownership and return on investment. <br /><br />If it was about caring for children there are a million ways to do that without adoption. That being said, children benefit from 'ownership' when there are good owners, they benefit from investment, even when a return is expected. <br /><br />Like I am fond of saying, 'communism sounds good on paper' but shared ownership of property results in neglect. <br /><br />There is a lot of reform that could happen that would ultimately benefit the marginalized children that become adoptees. Saccharine rhetoric to soothe adults is not a part of that. I mean that, right there is the problem, soothing adults at expense of the children.joyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15658928829424953809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-16549116133015205532010-12-13T20:31:09.924-05:002010-12-13T20:31:09.924-05:00"Legal adoption is NOT dependent on wiping ou..."Legal adoption is NOT dependent on wiping out the child's heritage, changing their name, or cutting them off from all biological relatives."<br /><br />But that's pretty much what happens in about 99% of adoptions.<br /><br />In fact, Hopgood was the first adoptee I had heard of whose parents kept her name of origin and *legally* used it.Mei Linghttp://adoptionparadox.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-81664071402920592292010-12-13T19:51:01.184-05:002010-12-13T19:51:01.184-05:00Eileen wrote:"I guess I'm just tired of f...Eileen wrote:"I guess I'm just tired of feeling like first mothers always have to say that some adoptions are necessary when they are trying to be heard. Not nearly as many adoptions are truly necessary as people like to think."<br /><br />Indeed, there were and are way too many unnecessary adoptions. All of us here agree on that. But that is not the same as "there are NO necessary adoptions". Yes, some adoptions are necessary, and I am a natural mother and nobody is making me say that. <br /><br />Most of the women writing and reading here had surrenders that were not really necessary. With a little help, encouragement, decent counseling that involved our parents, and our child's father and his parents if he was a young guy, most of us could have kept our kids and done a decent job raising them. This is also true of some young mothers still being sucked into coercive and dishonest adoption broker schemes today, also those victimized by some religious agencies.<br /><br />But this is not the whole picture of adoption. With real adoption reform, capable, motivated young mothers in temporary crisis would never become birthmothers, so they would be out of the adoption picture. But there are other situations where mothers and whole families are unfit or unwilling to raise the children they bring into the world. These are the cases where adoption will still be needed. <br /><br />Parents who are chronic addicts, seriously mentally ill, abusers, or just not interested in parenting will always exist. These people may not do well with open adoption or guardianship because they are dangerous or too unstable to retain any kind of parental right or relate to a minor child in any way that is healthy.<br /><br />Those who propose that no adoptions are necessary and that guardianship should replace adoption are basing this on the model of all birthparents being like us, motivated, bright, rational, interested in our children and their well being and able to contribute to it. This is just not so for many kids already in foster care, and for those who would be surrendered as infants under a better system where honest counseling and family preservation where appropriate was more of an option. Those like us would go home with their babies. Those who surrendered because they truly wanted or needed to are not people we can assume are just like us who can be dealt with the same way.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-83151485118932624572010-12-13T16:14:51.481-05:002010-12-13T16:14:51.481-05:00Maryanne wrote:" the whole guardianship idea ...Maryanne wrote:" the whole guardianship idea is really about, the natural parents retaining rights and titles, not what might be better for the child."<br /><br /> This is also what bothers me that the natural parents want to retain this tie to the child but without taking any responsibility for the child. That's why I wrote earlier that this sounds like long-term foster care rather than a family.<br /><br />@Lorraine,<br />I don't think it is fair to discuss the increase in infertility<br />due to age without mentioning the enormous societal changes that occurred during this time frame. Women's career aspirations have changed. Finally, for the first time in history, women are allowed, welcomed and encouraged to pursue careers that were once the province of men only. For example, if a woman wants to become a doctor her training will take place between the ages of 18 and 31 (her prime fertile years). Even becoming a lawyer or getting a PhD will take her into her mid to late twenties. Our educational system and career planning have not changed at all to accomodate women's biology. When you add in establishing a career the age goes up even higher.<br /><br />Also, for at least the last 2 generations most men are not ready to make a commitment until their mid-30s. <br /><br />It certainly was easier for women to have children in their twenties when women were encouraged to get married right out of college and forego careers for homemaking and motherhood. And men frequently married in their twenties then, too. Btw, I don't know any women who were in a relationship to have children when they were only 2o to 24.Robinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-14029663692736657422010-12-13T11:10:33.389-05:002010-12-13T11:10:33.389-05:00Very well said as usual! I do have to say though t...Very well said as usual! I do have to say though that I am sorry that you felt you had to write this due to pressure from adoptive parents and that you are now getting a lot of comments from infertile people as well. The title of your blog is First Mother Forum and it is one of the few places that first mothers can go to read and comment about issues from the first mother's perspective. There are many other sites on the internet for adoptive parents as well as for infertile couples. <br /><br />I guess I'm just tired of feeling like first mothers always have to say that some adoptions are necessary when they are trying to be heard. Not nearly as many adoptions are truly necessary as people like to think.Eileennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-6169463798155069312010-12-12T22:04:56.489-05:002010-12-12T22:04:56.489-05:00Dear Anonymous of 3:10 am:
Not sure why we did no...Dear Anonymous of 3:10 am:<br /><br />Not sure why we did not post your comment--it may have seemed off the mark or unnecessarily combative, or, well, we simply may have been tired of comments from people having trouble conceiving and who are shocked, shocked that we are not more sympathetic. We do not understand why they do not understand simple biology. <br /><br />We know that infertility occurs for many reasons but we also know that the people to whom it befalls most are people past their most fertile years, to wit: <br /><br />Between 1985 and 1994 the proportion of births to women in their 20s decreased from 62 percent to 53 percent, while the proportion of births to women 30 - 44 years of age increased from 25 percent to 34 percent. Since the mid 1970s there has been a four-fold increase in the percent of first births to women 30 years and older. <br /><br />Yet women are most fertile between the ages of 20 and 24. As women grow older the likelihood of getting pregnant falls steeply while the likelihood of infertility rises sharply. Men can remain fertile for much longer but male fertility still declines with age, albeit less dramatically. <br /><br />We are less than eager to embrace the problems (delaying conception until past peak years of probability) since it is obvious this trend is what increases the pressure to find adoptable babies. Scott Simon's book, "Baby, We Were Meant for Each Other," is a good example of what we mean.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.com