tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post2485022975783846311..comments2024-03-14T17:59:30.786-04:00Comments on [Birth Mother] First Mother Forum: Should Birth Parents Be Allowed to Sue to Get Their Babies Back?Lorraine Duskyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-36462605277756405012015-11-22T08:02:16.940-05:002015-11-22T08:02:16.940-05:00i agree adoption is a business we have 2 children ...i agree adoption is a business we have 2 children who was adopted in 2004 but was never told till 20/11/2015 and you only have 2 years to appeal against it how can you appeal against something that you never new about 6 months after the final hearing we got to keep our third child which was also in 2004Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-45890418852089833252015-01-03T14:58:38.105-05:002015-01-03T14:58:38.105-05:00Thanks for the info, Anon. Apparently it was a lon...Thanks for the info, Anon. Apparently it was a long-standing practice to put "negro" on the line for the father's name. The Oregon media might be interested in this. Jane Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09715622112694146946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-26482668022962058902015-01-02T04:44:25.873-05:002015-01-02T04:44:25.873-05:00The Incident I spoke of my son in 1982 was in Oreg...The Incident I spoke of my son in 1982 was in Oregon, my son was bought and sold a s slave in reality, and the law protects them. I found out they tricked me a week after they stole my son, I never even was given a moment in court, and they told me I had no right to my child! I have called many lawyers over the years no one would take my case if it had been a day I don't believe I would have found some one to take my case. There is no one watching or protecting the law in this matter, ultimate power, is a disgrace to humanity and the family unit it robs without moral justice in our courts slavery still remains, even if they don't call your child a negro, fatherless, and abandoned...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-61743265103459412242015-01-02T04:37:39.058-05:002015-01-02T04:37:39.058-05:00My son in 1982 had negro put on his birth certific...My son in 1982 had negro put on his birth certificate after he was stolen by an adoption agency, I am white, they knew the fathers name and race but listed him as negro, and father unknown! It is so obvious my son was stolen, it was so obvious I was refused help because his father was black, it was so obvious that I was coerced and the adoption agencies response was, we don't do things that way anymore, and there is nothing we can do, get over it. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-87118194764908522242011-03-17T23:12:57.482-04:002011-03-17T23:12:57.482-04:00It can take time to discover one's child has b...It can take time to discover one's child has been placed into an abusive home and-or that the mother was lied to in order to gain her relinquishment. <br /><br />If so, and the court of law proves it, a year is a reasonable amount of time for recourse. Recourse with proven good cause is a far different animal from "free babysitting" -- which seems rather a trivial way to frame something of such magnitude. <br /><br />Lying about/withholding information from the father is wrong (even as it is encouraged by some agencies). Perhaps a potential felony charge will cease it from happening. Perhaps a potential felony charge will also stop some potential adoptive parents from lying in order to secure an adoption.<br /><br />Equality is the birthright of all people, and I look forward to the passage of any bill that promotes some level accountability to this end.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-90478620263733621572011-03-03T09:20:29.990-05:002011-03-03T09:20:29.990-05:00Dear Trying-to-Heal
"Theodore,
I have a rea...Dear Trying-to-Heal<br /><br />"Theodore, <br />I have a real hard time finding sympathy for the adopted parents having to wait."<br /><br />They don't have to,the Dutch Domestic Adoption system is a side show, the main game is international adoption. Yes, it is initially exciting to the PA-parents, being in the process in two countries, but nothing much happens in the Dutch one and they forget, kept busy trying to get a kid from China, or the USA or so. Nothing happens, until suddenly the mighty Council of Child Protection, calls one of them, does some social talk, status checking, and tells them: There is a such-and-so baby and YOU, yes, you alone, have been chosen to to be allowed adoption of this child, do you accept?"<br /> But even as a natural mother, well, can you imagine a mother who has been given three months the time to reclaim the baby, in a culture where the worst complaint about her making that decision will be something like "Couldn't you come to your senses a bit earlier, dear?", such a mother, who braved that temptation, trying to recover her baby from its 2nd foster family, the one intended to become its adoptive one?", barring a great change in external circumstances. So the fostering year is really, WE HAVE OUR BABY!!!, getting it the adopted status is just paper work and formalities.<br /><br />I called it a relinquishment hell, because the system and culture is pro-natural-family preservation, if the PA-parents will not get the babies, they will never know how close they came and will have nothing to mourn about. I mean delivery room change of hearts, are so common, it's cruel to play with their hopes. Yes, they will have a year to get to know and love their baby, if they get one, but a mother who can fail to reclaim her child in a three month No-Hard-Feelings period, is very unlikely to change her mind, in the next twelve months. That's not waiting, that's just accepting that formalities take a long time, and IF the mother (before Finalization, she has relinquished parental "powers", but not the family relationship and can claim the maternal powers back, so still THE mother, even if the kid may have has some foster mothers already) might change her mind, or circumstances might change so that she can reclaim her baby, and is allowed to do so by the court, that's bad for them, but they cannot feel deeper pain, than the pain she is soothing. I mean, having "your baby" returned to its natural family, maybe with an Open Adoption Failure, in which the adoptive parents get the visting rights, and letters and pictures instead, may feel very bad, but compared with the worst, the death of your baby, it must be paradise.Theodorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14634057445114838262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-6642105365414057932011-03-03T05:04:00.558-05:002011-03-03T05:04:00.558-05:00"Moms who clearly want to parent their own ch..."Moms who clearly want to parent their own children, do not have their children placed with PAPs <br /><br />To me it rather seems that a relinquishing mother is dragged through hell, all the way to the centre." <br /><br />Theodore:<br /><br /><br />It seems to be the PAP are the ones dragged along. One whole year with more time(afterwards) to make a decision? Sounds like some of the women are abusing the system for free childcare/babysitting servicesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-38551212124025310562011-03-03T00:44:08.598-05:002011-03-03T00:44:08.598-05:00The nine months argument is tired. Even the most ...The nine months argument is tired. Even the most supported mothers who feel very bonded with their in-utero children report being struck anew by the love and bond they feel upon their children's birth. <br /><br />The "then more time" (apparently 30days) assumes that a mother is offered truth and informed consent to begin with. All one has to do is look around to know that CPC counselors often have a vested interest in a mother not getting the truth in order that she may more readily relinquish.<br /><br />The comments about the Moquin case by anon appear to be speculation and, therefore, irrelevant here. Only someone who knows those involved can say whether Ms. Moquin overstepped or whether the adoptive parents intentionally deceived her in order to gain her child. <br /><br />The "problem here" is the almost complete lack of regulation and ethics within adoption as practiced today and the fact that it banks on the vulnerability of mothers and children quite intentionally. It would seem that is an abuse of law, from which a kind of blackmail (we'll let you see your child if you suck it up and don't tell anyone we lied) can emerge.<br /><br />It seems what is being hoped for is that the transfer of rights and responsibilities for a child be based on truth and free from coercion. True, anyone can claim these just as anyone can claim they did not occur. All the more reason for laws that spell it all out... including informed consent, enforceable contact agreements, and some recourse for a mother and her child in the case where her rights and the child's rights were violated and in cases where the child is not best served by a potential adoption going through (and, yes, scenarios exist where this has been discerned after 30 days for numerous reasons including extensive fraud by agency reps or potential adoptive parents).<br /><br />This was well said by one of the anonymous posters:<br /><br />"Adoptees want and need to know that they are in their families because they needed to be and not because their mothers were taken advantage of. Clear guidelines in the law that are up to ethical standards allow for more confidence in answering very important questions adoptees may have during their childhood and lifetime. Adoption is already full of paradoxes and messages that are hard to process for children; let's make it better and not perpetuate the current nonsense."<br /><br />I don't get why this is so hard to digest.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-69224334698592066752011-03-03T00:33:45.804-05:002011-03-03T00:33:45.804-05:00Why are there so many people named "Anonymous...Why are there so many people named "Anonymous" lately on this blog? It's really a coward's way out, and so uncreative. At least make up a ditzy screen name, so we can have some idea who is saying what... You can post it under Name/URL and not include any URL.<br /><br />Keep up the great work, Jane. You're my hero! It's kind of scary how much flack you're getting from APs on this bill. The lies and distortions going around the Internet about the legislation are frightening...and so predictable.Ravennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-40464920966379272832011-03-02T23:48:05.255-05:002011-03-02T23:48:05.255-05:00I know of specific instances where birthmothers di...I know of specific instances where birthmothers did not realize they had been lied to or coerced about their children's best interests until well after 30 days. In one case the mother discovered the adoptive father was a paranoid schizophrenic. In another case that one of the adoptive parents was abusing the child physically and emotionally. In another that the adoptive grandfather had previously mollested a family member. <br /><br />The question has been asked "how long does it take" to discover youve been coerced (or lied to?) Sometimes it takes until the truth comes out. Unfortunately for some children that's too late. A year in any of these cases wouldn't have been a bad thing for the children at all.<br /><br />lmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-39965191457502691702011-03-02T19:36:29.744-05:002011-03-02T19:36:29.744-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Theodorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14634057445114838262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-21107912092204742912011-03-02T19:36:07.406-05:002011-03-02T19:36:07.406-05:00Anonymous: It's Dutch, if you ask me, it is de...Anonymous: It's Dutch, if you ask me, it is designed to prevent unnecessary relinquishments at all costs. Who has no intent to parenting? PA-parents? They get a call, Hello, all's well, you can adopt this baby, do you want to? And in two weeks they are the child's foster parents, and are just parenting happily away until the year is past and they finalize the adoption in court. Moms who clearly want to parent their own children, do not have their children placed with PAPs <br /><br />To me it rather seems that a relinquishing mother is dragged through hell, all the way to the centre. <br /><br />Theodore:<br /><br />That's insane!!! IMO, when it takes someone that long it means they have no intention of parenting and are abusing the system!Theodorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14634057445114838262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-21980026323935823982011-03-02T18:07:37.468-05:002011-03-02T18:07:37.468-05:00I am adopted and am an adoptive Mom and if the ado...I am adopted and am an adoptive Mom and if the adoption is done correctly with no shady deals going on, then I have no problem with the bill that makes sure the child goes to honest law abiding APs and nothing less. I guess if peole have to rush an adoption through, then they would oppose this law giving time for an adoption to be done lawfully and honestly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-27531681263082246672011-03-02T17:50:34.518-05:002011-03-02T17:50:34.518-05:00In regards to father's rights. I am 100% behi...In regards to father's rights. I am 100% behind such an action but, as mentioned before, there are many factors that can go in to a father being listed as unknown.<br /><br />I always knew and made known the identity of my son's father but Colorado law back then stated that, since we were not married, his name could not be added to the birth certificate and so he was listed as unknown.<br /><br />I had no control over that and I had no choice and neither did my son's father because law demanded he be listed as unknown when he was known from the very beginning.Cassihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00274531213087340905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-9948983615776330212011-03-02T15:34:20.601-05:002011-03-02T15:34:20.601-05:00With the amount of coercion and lying that go on i...With the amount of coercion and lying that go on in adoption, the one year grace period for filing lawsuits related to fraud in adoption seems reasonable to me, and as Jane stated, other states have no time limit. It is about protecting rights, and as people have said, making adoption as transparent as possible to protect the CHILD. If I found out that my aparents had blocked anything in order to protect their hold on me, I would have been furious. <br /><br />I really don't see it as free babysitting, at all. Aparents go into this wanting to take care of a child, and if something shady occurred in the adoption, they should be made aware of it. Problem is, turning a blind eye to shadiness is easy. And to call ethical adoption "free babysitting" is a way of doing just that. <br /><br />Frivolous lawsuits are filed all the time. They are terrible, no doubt. But as Jane said, the burden lies on the nparents to PROVE the fraud. The system is weighted so much in favor of aparents.<br /><br />I can see where an adoptee might be triggered by the idea of a child being removed from the caretaking parents (aparents, presumably) at the end of a year and given to "strangers" (the nfamily). <br /><br />I couldn't forgive either set of my parents for being less than honest. In my case, the agency was full of lies. The agency lied to my nmom and lied to my aparents. It was all about the money. My aparents paid for my nmom's hospital expenses, supposedly. Nope. The hospital were paid by my grandfather, and my nmom saw nothing of it. The agency pocketed it all! What ethics?ms. marginaliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03854609171313401651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-27251578921805082412011-03-02T15:09:47.172-05:002011-03-02T15:09:47.172-05:00Jane:
ETA
I appreciate your explaining and being...Jane:<br /><br />ETA<br /><br />I appreciate your explaining and being open to hearing others POV and suggestion. Thank you. Now I will respectful withdraw from the conversationAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-80285421605784094742011-03-02T14:58:47.297-05:002011-03-02T14:58:47.297-05:00Trying to heal and Lorraine:
I give-up it is obvi...Trying to heal and Lorraine:<br /><br />I give-up it is obvious that a difference of opinions (even in agreement half way) isn't respected. <br /><br />I just wanted to give another POV in regards to the bill. Under this bill, tryingtoheal, you would be able to get your child back within thirty-eight days, which I agree with. <br /><br />But to say after the thirty-eight days expire a woman haves up too an additional 365 days to decide if she has been "had". It's not fair to the child or aparents. And, if someone should wait until 365 days to file a petition, then what does that say about their motives? Thirty-eight days after you(general) sign those papers you can come back 364 days later and file a petition..it doesn't add up, but that's abusing the law.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-77667200130990569292011-03-02T14:45:05.976-05:002011-03-02T14:45:05.976-05:00In regards to naming the birthfather, I remember w...In regards to naming the birthfather, I remember when I was pregnant and applied for AFDC, The social worker in the welfare office was a man and when he asked me the father's name and I told him, he was very annoyed at me. I later found out that I was either supposed to say I didn't know or that I had been raped-it was less work for the social worker-he didn't have to contact him too. And I finally figured out that the reason they pushed adoption on me was so they wouldn't have to pay me all of $90.00 a month.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-81085526371254325112011-03-02T14:17:12.832-05:002011-03-02T14:17:12.832-05:00As to natural fathers, I gave the agency my daught...As to natural fathers, I gave the agency my daughters fathers name, age, place of residence, race, hair color, weight, etc.. but guess what, on the papers she received from the agency yhe father is listed as "unknown".tryingtohealnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-89778260381865787372011-03-02T14:12:55.865-05:002011-03-02T14:12:55.865-05:00Lorraine,
My thoughts exactly to Anon. I don't...Lorraine,<br />My thoughts exactly to Anon. I don't know too many mothers who would initiate an adoption of their child in order to get a years free babysitting.<br />I can only speak from my experience and I know for a fact that within 2 months of signing I knew that I had made the biggest mistake of my life. I wanted to take it all back but of course it was too late. <br /><br />Theodore, <br />I have a real hard time finding sympathy for the adopted parents having to wait. As a natural mother I have lived through hell and back because of my decision. Even after being reunited after 36 years the pain is still there. The bottom line is that we as mothers gave our children the one thing their adopted parents could never give them...life. Adopted parents in return should give the mother every minute, hour, month, she needs to be sure of her decision.tryingtohealnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-9275586469913618992011-03-02T13:25:04.915-05:002011-03-02T13:25:04.915-05:00You may be an adoptee, but certainly show no compa...You may be an adoptee, but certainly show no compassion towards mothers, and it is amazing to us that you keep coming her to argue endlessly about something that you have indicated that you only stated interst is that you are an adopted individual. <br /><br />Something in you has hardened beyond reach. The adoptive parents who have commented here have more compassion towards other adoptees and their natural parents than you do.<br /><br />Lorraine:<br /><br />I am far from that. I do believe and agree with the combined thirty-eight day grace period but as I asked before, how much time does a person need to determine if they were forced to place or fraud was committed? One year is a lot of time to decide? And no, I am not lawyer just a person who believes in fairness for all. <br /><br />Osolomama:<br /><br />To avoid bfathers being denied the right to parent I think Jane should try ( I know she said it's too late)very soon to add the amendment ( make it a felony to lie about unknown father).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-62811492578331092952011-03-02T11:19:55.443-05:002011-03-02T11:19:55.443-05:00Dear Anon Adoptee who sounds like a lawyer who dea...Dear Anon Adoptee who sounds like a lawyer who deals with adoption with a financial interest in seeing that they occur...in Oregon? <br /><br />Did I get that right? If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, etc...<br /><br />I have never heard an adoptee argue so vigorously against allowing a mother more leeway before the adoption of her child is final and she has no recourse. <br /><br />You may be an adoptee, but certainly show no compassion towards mothers, and it is amazing to us that you keep coming her to argue endlessly about something that you have indicated that you only stated interst is that you are an adopted individual. <br /><br />Something in you has hardened beyond reach. The adoptive parents who have commented here have more compassion towards other adoptees and their natural parents than you do.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-61077958886917798932011-03-02T08:56:12.521-05:002011-03-02T08:56:12.521-05:00"Oslomama:
In regards to what you are talkin..."Oslomama:<br /><br />In regards to what you are talking about, in most cases the fraud has been committed by the bmother."<br /><br />I don't care who commits the fraud, and Jane's point is valid. Adoption agencies sometimes offer erroneous advice to first mothers, PAPs or both in an effort not to derail the adoption. When everyone goes into it knowing there is a remedy for fraud or coercion, it lessons the likelihood of those things occurring.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-72212533000860854342011-03-02T06:43:58.590-05:002011-03-02T06:43:58.590-05:00Theodore:
That's insane!!! IMO, when it takes...Theodore:<br /><br />That's insane!!! IMO, when it takes someone that long it means they have no intention of parenting and are abusing the system! <br /><br />Talk about potential aparents being in a limbo!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-57853364479559940462011-03-01T23:09:52.742-05:002011-03-01T23:09:52.742-05:00I present you the Relinquishment Hell of the Nethe...I present you the Relinquishment Hell of the Netherlands...<br /><br />Before birth the intention to relinquishment has to be made known to the FIOM.<br />After birth Guardianship given by court to an office. Child goes to neutral foster family. Two weeks after birth mom has to go to court.<br />Mother has three months from birth to decide whether she really wants to continue with relinquishment. Then she has to sign and guardianship goes to potential adoption parents, after. Wishes about potential aparent can be expressed. At this stage there are still three possibilties, Back to Bio mom who wants and can raise, problem solved HELLO MAMA to Foster (Bio mom wants to raise, but cannot yet), to PAPs.<br />If PAPs, PAPs are selected by office, if possible together with bio-parent(s).<br />After a year fostering the PAPs can adopt, mother is invited in court, and could still block the stuff, but not easily, anymore the Judge will have to seriously investigate why this late change of mind. Until the Finalization of the Adoption, the process is favouring a return to the normal condition, i.e. child parented by bio-parents, who are until finalization the legal parents. Whole process takes at least 15 months from Birth, mom wants to think it over, three months added, Single Adopter? Add two YEARS. And I see people complaining about a measely eight days?<br /><br />And, to end the description of hell to adopters:<br /><br />The Adoption is almost indestructible, unless young adult adoptee goes to court and tells that he wants to restore familie ties with reunited bio-family. <br /><br />Count your "blessings", Oregon.Theodorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14634057445114838262noreply@blogger.com