tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post2681446432473222967..comments2024-03-27T20:48:39.389-04:00Comments on [Birth Mother] First Mother Forum: Why birth/natural mother-adoptee reunions go awryLorraine Duskyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comBlogger66125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-53719699032940834712023-07-07T02:48:40.826-04:002023-07-07T02:48:40.826-04:00Know fully well what you're saying. It's u...Know fully well what you're saying. It's unbelievable what the adoption industry set us up for. No one knows except us. Peace.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-60952966434540250462020-01-09T10:53:56.922-05:002020-01-09T10:53:56.922-05:00Thank you patty for confirming my thoughts.
Thank you patty for confirming my thoughts. <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03548964779480330266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-58416417820471398222015-07-03T18:32:27.135-04:002015-07-03T18:32:27.135-04:00You have just written what I am personally gong th...You have just written what I am personally gong through. My brother and his family feel I should just "suck it up" and deal with his anger. I cannot. I am doing the best I can-and apparently it will never be good enough.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-1542217315365336952011-11-22T15:40:27.383-05:002011-11-22T15:40:27.383-05:00COMMENTS CLOSEDCOMMENTS CLOSEDLorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-20483951369420044862011-11-09T20:51:49.291-05:002011-11-09T20:51:49.291-05:00Carrie:
Great idea. I'll do it, give me a som...Carrie:<br /><br />Great idea. I'll do it, give me a some time.<br /><br />xxLorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-11120405480151101812011-11-09T19:35:35.321-05:002011-11-09T19:35:35.321-05:00Thanks, Lorraine. I really appreciate the empathy...Thanks, Lorraine. I really appreciate the empathy. It just sucks, no two ways about it.<br /><br />Hmmm... I'd love for you to "knock some sense and humanity" into my birthmother's heart... How could we arrange that? ;)<br /><br />Actually, that's an interesting thought for a blog post: perhaps you'd consider an open letter to all the closed birthparents out there?<br /><br />I'd love to hear your perspective on that one...<br /><br />Thanks so much for sharing your perspective here. It's helpful for me to understand some of the feelings that my own birthmother might have stuffed away, so long ago.Carrienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-31925248516247853612011-11-09T11:01:28.303-05:002011-11-09T11:01:28.303-05:00Carrie: I know you are right...though I am not pe...Carrie: I know you are right...though I am not personally in contact with any of the mothers who reject a full, living breathing reunion and relationship, I do hear about them from a friend who is a Confidential Intermediary in a semi-open state. I cringe when I hear about mothers and or fathers who reject contact and reunion; it must be the worst of all feelings possible. I can't even imagine how it must feel. <br /><br />So I do speak for the other women--those who long for reunion and a relationship--and it is in our name that I use the plural "we." <br /><br />I can only say that my heart breaks for you and all the others like you. I wish I could reach your mother and the others like her, and knock some sense and humanity into their hearts and heads. They were co-opted by the enemy that is the closed adoption system long ago, and are too fearful to cross over to the other side. Doing so requires courage, and it can be painful. We get rejected also and in great number. Relationships after reunion appears to be in most cases rocky, but we do the best we can. <br /><br />Your situation and those of the others like you is one in which these words, however trite they sound, do carry meaning: <b>Give me the grace and wisdom to accept what I cannot change.</b>Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-16941023562715665132011-11-08T22:14:32.045-05:002011-11-08T22:14:32.045-05:00I'm surprised by the assumption/premise of thi...I'm surprised by the assumption/premise of this post ("where are the good reunions?"). I've been struck by how positive reunion is portrayed in the media... that only the amazing coincidence, happy ending stories make it to Oprah or get made into books or movies.<br /><br />I found my birth mother, but she rejected contact, despite several attempts on my part, returning my letters unopened. She did send one card, telling me to kiss off, basically.<br /><br />For this reason, I bristled when I read: "We natural mothers long for a kind of normalcy with our reunited daughters and sons that we cannot have." <br /><br />I know you are speaking for a majority of natural mothers, but the use of the all-inclusive "we" just feels false to an adoptee who has experienced the most painful rejection, twice.Carrienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-54265929595088943472011-08-20T11:09:37.284-04:002011-08-20T11:09:37.284-04:00This has happened between myself and my birth mom,...This has happened between myself and my birth mom, for about 27 years since we met in 1984. <br /><br />However, there are better reasons why I have stayed away, different than the reasons your daughter has retreated. <br /><br />I have to say, that I had such a big fantasy built up about my birth mom, that I lived that fantasy, even though it really was not happening. So, birth mom was this woman, since day one, and I had her built up in my mind as someone else. I think after time, and therapy, and soul searching, that fantasy broke away and I saw the real birth mom. <br /><br />Anyhow, she was not who I thought she was. But during the fantasy, I was not honest with myself, about my expectations. I just reacted, to whatever it was I was thinking, or had built up in my mind about who I wanted her to be.<br /><br />So confusing. I have found this "Fantasy" issue is a big problem for me. Not only with birth mom, but with my mom as well, yes my adoptive mom. I wanted a certain mom, so I made her up, in my own mind. I somehow ignored both mom's real personality, and made them both into someone they are not. <br /><br />Wow, I'm seriously not that much of a nut, I'm an average person, no mental illness. I still cant believe its taken me until age 46 to break this. <br /><br />Like your post, its so true.<br />cathyMeowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08028253143714339130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-11692169959805316922011-08-12T07:32:25.587-04:002011-08-12T07:32:25.587-04:00"Group think" may be helpful when addres..."Group think" may be helpful when addressing politicians about legislation, but it is poisonous to free discussion of highly emotional personal issues like reunion.<br /><br />Look at the fascinating range of personal stories on this issue that have been told here. There is no group think way to deal with reunion or relationships without leaving out, silencing, and alienating a number of people whose experiences do not fit the mold.SweetTea Pienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-13459006212231150482011-08-11T23:20:30.469-04:002011-08-11T23:20:30.469-04:00I think "we" and "us" are appr...I think "we" and "us" are appropriate when educating the public or trying to reform adoption. Here, where we are sharing our experiences, I think it's more appropriate to use "I." Since every adoption/reunion experience is different. There's no way they can be the same. Likewise, with readers assuming that their reunion will be bad or good, based on what happened to others. I encourage all to search, but be prepared for whatever comes as a result. Also, to allow for time to change things, since it almost always does.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-61939872959293755432011-08-11T22:14:05.221-04:002011-08-11T22:14:05.221-04:00Thank you Robin. I agree completely.
good night!...Thank you Robin. I agree completely. <br /><br />good night!~Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-67458393826360120792011-08-11T18:49:24.968-04:002011-08-11T18:49:24.968-04:00I disagree with those who think that using "w...I disagree with those who think that using "we" and "us" is inappropriate. Actually, I think these terms are very beneficial for social change. For example, we adoptees should have unfettered access to our OBCs. Or we first mothers during the BSE were under enormous pressure to relinquish our children for adoption. I believe that without this type of group think, so to speak, that there wouldn't have been a civil rights movement or a women's movement either.<br /><br />Also, sometimes it is appropriate to speak more in generalities if one doesn't wish to put their personal experience on a worldwide forum such as FMF.Robinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-36877793004479522702011-08-11T14:42:51.617-04:002011-08-11T14:42:51.617-04:00@gypsywinter - I,too, detest the use of "all,...@gypsywinter - I,too, detest the use of "all, and us" etc., in the conversations so thanks for bringing this up. No two situations are alike. In adddition to creating inaccurate statements, using such words can also be insulting to some (e.g., most or all adoptees can never achieve normalcy and adoptees are damaged).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-66424433977244905862011-08-11T12:07:02.698-04:002011-08-11T12:07:02.698-04:00Chris Gypsywinter said:
"As a side note...I ...Chris Gypsywinter said:<br /><br />"As a side note...I really detest the constant use of 'us' and 'we' in these conversations.Mothers cannot speak for all mothers and adoptees cannot speak for all adoptees. Each of 'us' are unique human beings in our own ways..and so are our reunions..warts and all. There may be many similarities, but there are also many differences, as well."<br /><br />Amen!! And if we could all remember to just speak for ourselves with no generalizations, these conversations would be much smoother with less hurt feelings and irrational anger on all sides.<br />The worst advice I got about my reunion was people telling me how "all" adoptees behave and why. Turned out most of it was not true for my particular situation.SweetTea Pienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-32033389922265143552011-08-11T10:27:34.277-04:002011-08-11T10:27:34.277-04:00There is much more to the story of the mother who ...There is much more to the story of the mother who said "Boys are easier to raise" to her surrendered daughter than one comment. I know the parties involved, but would leave it to them to comment on a very complex situation.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-44038392159665202662011-08-11T10:20:48.707-04:002011-08-11T10:20:48.707-04:00I'm reunited 12 yrs now. I searched and found ...I'm reunited 12 yrs now. I searched and found my daughter 34 yrs after my surrender...with no expectations. The first 5-6 years in reunion was no walk in the park...and yes, I was constantly walking on egg-shells, because I was so AFRAID of saying the wrong thing. In my *normal* very adult life..."afraid" was not part of my personality make-up. I so wanted to just act my normal self around my daughter. By not acting my normal self, I felt like a phony...thus cheating my daughter and myself. Finally an episode in our reunion occurred that tipped the scales...I was furious!! And I let her know it in no uncertain terms...no more or less than I would have been with one of my raised adult children. I did not speak to her like a 'friend' or an 'acquaintance'...I spoke directly to her as a mother to her small child who was acting out, fully engaged in a temper tantrum. You know what?!..it helped, not only my daughter...but myself as well and positive changes occurred over the ensuing years...still some crap occurred, but a whole lot less of it. How awful, no matter the years of separation..that I as a mother and my adult child, were so afraid of each other. After we let go of some of our fears, our relationship actually got better and stronger. And I can honestly say today..that just recently she literally saved my life.<br />In my reunion...I finally got 'real' and so did my daughter...it helped us both immensely...we're on solid ground today. Maybe months/years from now..who knows. All I know is that I and my daughter only have today. I no longer anticipate, fret over the future of our reunion. And we do Honestly love and respect each other. I gained her respect the day I acted and spoke to her...like her mother. It worked for her and I...I will never assume that would work for anyone else in reunion. But, hey..maybe it's worth a try...but you have to be willing to gamble..you may win or totally lose the relationship..and I was fully prepared to lose. I took that gamble...because I could no longer act and talk like a phony to my daughter. I had to be me...the REAL me..even in reunion.<br />As a side note...I really detest the constant use of 'us' and 'we' in these conversations.Mothers cannot speak for all mothers and adoptees cannot speak for all adoptees. Each of 'us' are unique human beings in our own ways..and so are our reunions..warts and all. There may be many similarities, but there are also many differences, as well.<br />I wish everyone well...whether in their search and/or in reunion. Be REAL...with a huge measure of Respect...from BOTH sides. And be willing to think and act outside of 'the box'. Reunions come in all shapes and sizes...ONE SIZE Does NOT Fit All!!Chris/Gypsywinternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-38040712878257676622011-08-11T10:07:23.199-04:002011-08-11T10:07:23.199-04:00Denise: As far as I know--and I've only heard ...Denise: As far as I know--and I've only heard the mother's side of the story--the woman did apologize immediately and tried to years to talk to her daughter, but she would not respond. <br /><br />Yes, my mother and I had some terrible fights, we both sad hurtful things--but we made up. I'm saying here that for that one comment to be the cause of a decade-long silence, while the birth mother tried to apologize, was not what would be considered normal behavior--if relinquishment had not been part of the package.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-78272605935349991152011-08-11T03:26:22.548-04:002011-08-11T03:26:22.548-04:00Thank you to those who reported on positive reunio...Thank you to those who reported on positive reunions. They can't all be great, but I take comfort in those that have made it through the ups and downs.<br /><br />I too didn't think the mother who said "boys are easier" to her female relinquished daughter was all that forgivable. She should have realized, even if after the words left her lips, that it was wrong. And apologized.<br /><br />My mother (the one I was born to and raised by) said some horrible things to me during and after my pregnancy. She never apologized, held firm. I had to forgive her in my own heart, without her knowing that I did. That adjustment made all the difference in my ability to be with her. And then she died. I was glad I went through that before she did. Otherwise, I think I would have felt tortured by unfinished business.<br /><br />Sorry... I realize that isn't relevant to mother/child relationships where they've been separated for most of their lives. We are like strangers... huge birth bond, but no history. And sometimes we just can't work it out.<br /><br />That's the part that makes me sad. I lay the blame on adoption, not the people involved. We're all just doing the best we can with the situation we are faced with. Reunion doesn't always work out. It's a rough road for all involved. <br /><br />I don't think we can generalize and say it's the fault of mothers or adult adoptees.<br /><br />I may never see my son again. I don't like that. But I can't say whether it's my doing or his. It just sucks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-42641980120167601152011-08-10T10:19:56.021-04:002011-08-10T10:19:56.021-04:00@Kristi - I found a lot to ponder in your comment,...@Kristi - I found a lot to ponder in your comment, thanks for your perspective. (I did not find it offensive).<br /><br />@SameOld - Your list of elements that help a reunion to succeed (maybe "carry on" is a better term) sounds reasonable to me. I particularly like the idea of mother/child taking time to be together without interfernce from APs, extended family, etc. If they ever feel comfortable expanding this circle they should do so at their own pace. I really believe outside influence has the potential to do great harm to the initial stages of reunion. Keeping others at arms length for as long as necessary may help the relationship gel before the other peeps have a chance to exert their negative attitudes - not that this always happens, but we have all heard about issues coming up when someone outside the mother/child dyad starts to make waves. (And sadly, this can include bad advice given by counselors who have little understanding of adoption issues).maybehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07067284504038707207noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-30364500278038586562011-08-10T06:58:20.486-04:002011-08-10T06:58:20.486-04:00Are Issycat and I the only people horrified that t...Are Issycat and I the only people horrified that the woman said "boys are easier to raise" to her female relinquished child (now adult).<br /><br />WHAT WAS SHE THINKING? How can that not be hurtful?<br /><br />How can you just brush it off with an oh well of course it had no relation to her relinquishing her daughter? <br /><br />If I was adopted and my natural mother said that to me about her kept baby I would be very upset.<br /><br />It's ok for us mothers to post about our feelings about how WE feel about reunion and adoption BUT<br /><br /><br />I can't help but feel that we also need to take more responsibility for the words we say and how they affect our sons and daughters.<br /><br />Even the most innocent comment can wound because of what we did. Regardless of whose fault it is that is not the point. We let people talk us into giving our children away and most of us had the very best of intentions. Most of us were teenagers who just didn't know any better. Many of us still have to stand by this and say that it was for the best. Most of us say no it was a crime.<br /><br />Whatever our reasons, whatever our circumstances we must be respectful and sensitive to our sons and daughters.<br /><br />I really cringe sometimes and the things that get said here.<br /><br />I'm ashamed of the things I have said too.HOLEY SCHMOLEYnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-71792062540905224292011-08-10T05:05:03.739-04:002011-08-10T05:05:03.739-04:00Part Two:
I cannot change what I did 39 years ago...Part Two:<br /><br />I cannot change what I did 39 years ago. I cannot continue to punish the 16-year-old girl who was hidden away in her bedroom for the crime of falling head-over-heels in love and ending up pregnant. I cannot tear up the surrender papers or wave my magic wand and go back in time and reclaim my baby. I'm tired of always feeling I'm on trial. I'd rather go to prison and serve my time than constantly sit in the courtroom of judgment every single day of my life.<br /><br />What is the definition of a "successful" reunion? Life isn't some fairytale where you live happily ever after. Relationships are what we make of them...notice I use the word "we," meaning it takes two people to relate to each other. One person just can't carry the load alone. And I have yet to discover a way to force people to open up the lines of communication if they don't want to communicate.<br /><br />The vast majority of the past 21 years in reunion has been good for both my son and myself. We had some bumps during his druggie years, but we both survived. I love him with every fiber of my being, and I think he loves me too, at least I hope he does. I would do anything for him, but I won't force myself on him when he wants his space. It is what it is. The one thing I've learned in the past 39 years is patience. I'll be here for him when he decides to come back...my door will always be open for him, but he has to be the one to walk through it -- I can't drag him inside, even though I want to.Ravennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-85033676621777915652011-08-10T05:03:09.141-04:002011-08-10T05:03:09.141-04:00Lorraine, I have always used the ocean's waves...Lorraine, I have always used the ocean's waves as a metaphor for the post-reunion relationship (21 years now) I've developed with my son. I was raised on the beaches of San Diego and learned to surf at a very young age, so the imagery works well for me. Most of the time, I have no problem at all staying up on the surfboard while navigating our relationship, but once in a while, a huge wave will slam me off.<br /><br />I don't know how many of you have ever surfed the big waves, but if you have, then you know how you need to constantly change direction depending on the wave. It soon becomes so automatic that you don't even think about it. And that's basically how I've been with my son all these years - I change course depending on what he needs at the time and "go with the flow."<br /><br />Currently, however, I'm pretty smashed up by the latest big wave...well, it's actually more like a tsunami. All I can do is head for the shoreline, sit down in the sand, and catch my breath.<br /><br />The other day when you told me how your husband calls it "Advance and Retreat," a lightbulb went on in my brain. That is exactly what my son does. When he retreats, he does NOT want me to come after him. He doesn't want anything to do with me for whatever reason. There is no way I can put on my "mommy pants," not with a 39-year-old man. When he was younger (we reunited when he turned 18), I did run after him, especially when he was self-destructive and strung out on crystal meth. But I can't do that anymore, not with a man who is closing in fast on middle age.<br /><br />I seem to be damned if I do and damned if I don't in almost everything having to do with my son...or with anything having to do with surrender and adoption. If I send him a short email to let him know I'm thinking of him, I'm accused of crossing boundaries, and other adoptees are quick to point out that his wishes, desires, wants, and needs have to come first. I'm sorry, but he's not a perpetual baby, and our relationship has withstood the test of time. He's had me back in his life now for over 21 years. I don't know what caused this latest huge wave, and frankly I'm really tired of trying to figure it out...so I'm sitting on the sand just waiting.<br /><br />He'll come back...he always does eventually. And he'll act as if nothing ever happened; he'll act as if he was never angry at me to begin with.<br /><br />The hard part for me to figure out is how much of this behavior is due to being surrendered at birth and raised by people other than myself or his natural father versus how much of it is caused by his bipolar disorder. Of course, the scary part for me is the possibility that he's using drugs again. I pray every day that he's not strung out again, but his current behavior reminds me a lot of the early days of his addiction back when he was a teenager. He gets really cold and fairly obnoxious.<br /><br />This boundary thing drives me up the wall. It's all the popular rage right now within the adoption community...set your boundaries and stick to them. From what I've seen, the boundaries often turn into walls and give people an excuse to treat others badly. I don't appreciate being manipulated by anybody, and that includes my son.Ravennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-65925703064577295472011-08-09T21:30:37.957-04:002011-08-09T21:30:37.957-04:00Dear Anon: If you have been following this blog, ...Dear Anon: If you have been following this blog, of course we know it is not all the adoptees fault that reunions don't go like many of us wish they would. This blog is not a book and not every post can cover all the bases. I was simply writing about the experiences of women I know who wanted to have relationships with their found and reunited children, including myself, and what many of us have found. The outpouring of comments show that many other mothers have the same difficult experience I had. I will still never be sorry I found my daughter. <br /><br />Adoptees suffer incredibly by being relinquished--tons of books have been written about that--and not all first mothers are nice people. Yours sounds incredibly sick, and I am truly sorry for your pain, and that of all adoptees. <br /><br />Adoption is always painful--for both the birth mother and the child.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-44107107367064735642011-08-09T21:23:33.235-04:002011-08-09T21:23:33.235-04:00cont. and I think that I would be open to a relati...cont. and I think that I would be open to a relationship again, I just feel like she left me and I forgave her, but she wants to blame me and justify the abuse, I would really be open to opinions and advice (I was originally posting to say that it goes both ways sometimes one party is more damaged, but that adoption in general is a killer) but I would be open to giving it another shotAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com