tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post3357366396878572587..comments2024-03-27T20:48:39.389-04:00Comments on [Birth Mother] First Mother Forum: Adoption may cost us our grandchildrenLorraine Duskyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comBlogger87125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-58427279043562643482015-09-15T09:19:24.893-04:002015-09-15T09:19:24.893-04:00TIME TO END THIS FRACAS. NO MORE COMMENTS.<b>TIME TO END THIS FRACAS. NO MORE COMMENTS.</b>Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-84705792125763043412015-09-15T06:41:27.384-04:002015-09-15T06:41:27.384-04:00It is everyone's choice, including Lori's,...It is everyone's choice, including Lori's, to decide whose rights to support and whose to ignore and to let us know that as Lori has done. I do not see that disagreeing constitutes bullying. As a birthmother, I have always supported adoptee rights to their OBC because, well, I believe it is an absolute right, not something for me to grant or take away. I do not base my choice on whether or not I like certain adoptees nor on my personal experience. My own son has no interest in adoptee rights. Some adoptees have vehemently disagreed with me on some of my views, and have even gotten nasty at times. While that hurts, and I understand being angry and hurt, Lori, I do not base my support of adoptee rights on my interactions with individual adoptees. I support the cause because I believe it is just and right. That is how I deal with supporting various civil rights causes, gay rights, minority civil rights, refugee and immigrant rights, not on individuals I have met from those populations, good or bad, but because I believe those rights should be equal for all.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-72588352072820591212015-09-14T23:41:25.714-04:002015-09-14T23:41:25.714-04:00Lori, I don't see that Lisa was judging you bu...Lori, I don't see that Lisa was judging you but i do agree with you that she was asking you for clarification. I agree with you that no one is any better than anyone else. But you do seem to take the stance here that because this is a Mothers forum, that mothers are somehow to be indulged here more, to be able to act entitled here. That is my analysis of many comments you have made, and you are not the only one. i neither agree or disagree with the idea that first mothers should be indulged here, but i think it is interesting to note that you seem to want to have it both ways - when an adoptee disagrees or asks you questions, suddenly it is none of their business or they are a bully. When they don't want to answer your questions, then perhaps they would be happier at an adoptee forum. Again this is not an indictment on you or your behavior, but something that i do find interesting.<br /><br />I do not think you are an abandoner or a piece of shit, i don't think any mother is on the basis that they relinquished their baby for adoption. I am sorry for your multiple losses and pains - i don't know about all of them i'm sure, but i can see when someone is in pain.<br /><br />I do however take issue with one thing you did say, and i'm gonna quote you - "You are not special in any way, barring that little thing - adoption. " If adoption were such a little thing, that in no way made either first mothers or their children special, none of us would be here having these conversations.<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16571106249207987994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-43237593319751952452015-09-14T19:21:28.065-04:002015-09-14T19:21:28.065-04:00Lisa,
As I got these comments at work today, I ...Lisa, <br /><br />As I got these comments at work today, I have a great deal of time to think about it... And of course, I have considered it carefully. First, while I find it interesting that you "quoted" me - I also find it normal that you willfully chose to misunderstand or undervalue the words I chose. You are a bully. You can't seem to understand that your rights are no more important than those of anyone else. You are not special in any way, barring that little thing - adoption. <br /><br />Because of that little thing, you assume the right to tell me what I may and may not choose to stand up for because I am a First Mother. This is bigotry at it's most refined. Bullies are usually bigots as well.<br /><br />The fact is you proved my point in your second statement - that my reason was not good enough and that for someone who claims to be silenced, I talk alot. You are mean spirited, cold and truly one of the reasons that I choose not to enter into your fight - or rather re-enter into that fight to be allowed to have your NOT LEGAL documents. Please note I did say not legal and not "incorrect" documents. <br /><br />You judged me like so many others on the basis of your right as an adopted person to tell me, the abandoner piece of shit, what to do and what I should feel. <br /><br />For those of you that defended me, thank you. But I fully meant what I said. I do not have to defend my right to support whatever cause I choose, for my reasons and my reasons alone - or, to not support a cause. <br /><br />I will not explain further - it is none of your business, Lisa, just as it was not your right to talk to me, another human being, as if you are somehow better or more valuable than I am. Be well and get over yourself. Adoptees are not the only children in the world treated like commodities.<br /><br />Annon - Actually you were right in the first place - you should not have backed off.... Lisa is a bully and had no right to judge me in the first place.<br /><br />Again, Lisa, be well... and remember this conversation every time you see a mother walk away from your fight.<br /><br />Lorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05815710859859029536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-46593502607146254522015-09-14T19:06:42.044-04:002015-09-14T19:06:42.044-04:00You r right. Maybe Lori meant that she wouldn'...You r right. Maybe Lori meant that she wouldn't get out there and get involved in working for adoptee rights. Which is sad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-6660210304645626362015-09-14T16:38:50.631-04:002015-09-14T16:38:50.631-04:00@ Anon 3:21
Even if that was the case, which is is...@ Anon 3:21<br />Even if that was the case, which is isn't, it is still not a good reason for not supporting adoptee rights.Lisanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-40825529089848570772015-09-14T15:21:22.257-04:002015-09-14T15:21:22.257-04:00just a thought: Lori might be expressing her feeli...just a thought: Lori might be expressing her feelings about how natural mothers are treated here by some adoptees after they express an opinion of frustration with their children. A lot of attacking goes on. from what I've seen, that 's not the way it is at adoptee blogs/ mothers don;t comment unless in total agreement with the writer. here at FMF adoptees feel free to attack mothers. that may be what Lori is saying. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-86936315007551177642015-09-14T09:23:45.599-04:002015-09-14T09:23:45.599-04:00"Interesting. This is why we, as mothers, are..."Interesting. This is why we, as mothers, are allowed to regret and accept blame, we are not allowed to simply state our feelings. This is why I have withdrawn from the adoption community and why I do not support adoptee rights."<br />That's a terrible reason for no longer supporting adoptee rights, Lori. And I see no evidence that mothers are being prevented from expressing their feelings. There are plenty of first mother blogs where they do little else. <br />There is all this talk about not being able to express feelings coming from both adoptees and first mothers. For people who are claiming to be "silenced" they are sure making a lot of noise.Lisanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-41024697675434875692015-09-13T17:43:10.410-04:002015-09-13T17:43:10.410-04:00Thank you for writing this Lori. Your words echo ...Thank you for writing this Lori. Your words echo the reality that we live.Gailnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-45851564480693466422015-09-13T12:12:29.529-04:002015-09-13T12:12:29.529-04:00thought you might be interested in this blog by an...thought you might be interested in this blog by an adoptee.whos not happy with the idea of grandkids and natural grandparents "swooping in" and taking her grandkids.<br /><br />http://www.dustbinblog.com/2015/09/the-cost-of-grandkids.html<br /><br />Mama Bearnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-35938752258191206262015-09-13T09:59:55.154-04:002015-09-13T09:59:55.154-04:00EXACTLY! Two children fighting over who lost out ...EXACTLY! Two children fighting over who lost out when they dropped their cake on the floor. DUH! Lorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05815710859859029536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-21351510998951416772015-09-13T09:56:40.392-04:002015-09-13T09:56:40.392-04:00Thank you Lori.
There is no way to compare the p...Thank you Lori. <br /><br />There is no way to compare the pain and the loss and besides that, what would be the point? It's like two schoolboys arguing over something. Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-15094417062755021392015-09-13T02:55:37.693-04:002015-09-13T02:55:37.693-04:00Interesting. While we, as mothers, are allowed to...Interesting. While we, as mothers, are allowed to regret and accept blame, we are not allowed to simply state our feelings. This is why I have withdrawn from the adoption community and why I do not support adoptees rights. Because, it appears to me, that no matter what the circumstances are, unless we beg every adoptee we meet for forgiveness for not hanging ourselves out of grief at the loss of our children, we get slammed for not being sympathetic enough. <br /><br />Saying that, I am sad that adopted people can't accept that while we can't understand their trauma on the level that they do, we do understand that loss. Losing a child, that is the most horrific thing there is. I watched my parents when my oldest sister died in an accident... my father, always so strong, crying, no, wailing in pain at her funeral. My mother, so lost in grief she made little sense to anyone- even her other 6 children.<br /><br />Why is it so hard to realize that we all got screwed? That in our own way, we all feel the same depth of pain and loss? <br /><br />Realistically, if you are an average adult and you carry on as if you were a child over a toy, people would tell you to grow up and get over it. As an adopted person, while I would never even think "grow up and get over it", I would think that if you are hurting that badly, seek help. I think the same of mothers - and yes, I make sure that I have a good therapist.<br /><br />Someone told me "it is not all darkness" - and they were right. Why can't we even try? Why must there always be that crazy competition for who hurts the most or who lost the most? The fact is, there is no comparison because neither side can feel what the other feels. We have to learn to be kind to one another and realize that placing blame is not going to fix this... Just love and kindness.... that's all. Why is that so hard?<br />Lorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05815710859859029536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-27077017294165981232015-09-12T17:10:14.480-04:002015-09-12T17:10:14.480-04:00Thank you, new and old.Thank you, new and old.Robinhttp://www.allinthefamilyadoption.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-52658551930752964962015-09-12T14:31:13.559-04:002015-09-12T14:31:13.559-04:00Well said, New and Old. Thanks for your input here...Well said, New and Old. Thanks for your input here. The aftermath of adoption is so complicated for everyone. Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-77389545077559544122015-09-12T13:22:01.715-04:002015-09-12T13:22:01.715-04:00I have been following this thread with interest. ...I have been following this thread with interest. I have two grandchildren who I probably will never meet. It is now official - my older son wants nothing to do with me and in fact will not even entertain any conversation about me. He is very angry that I gave him away. My younger son says that he is "OK" with the adoption, but he has, in general, very little to say, and seems wary, maybe even afraid of me. I imagine he is not able to understand his feelings in total yet, much of which may turn out to be anger. I think that the primal wound exists as an emotional trauma, and there is no need to slice it fine as it is very real to adoptees, whose pain is 100x more than that of us, the birth mothers. <br /><br />Yet, I would also say that in my view, all mothers love their babies and hope that their children have a better life than we did. How does this hope manifest itself? In my case, I was becoming verbally and emotionally abusive to my children, and was no longer able to control my thoughts or words. It was very serious. Some impulses were starting to become very strong, to do physical harm to them. I felt completely without a doubt that they would be better off, not being raised by me. Every time I read some article in the news about a mother who has killed her children, it takes me back to that terrible time, when I was capable of it. We came very close to disaster. Luckily I had enough emotional health left to realize that something had to be done. So I placed them for adoption with some friends of a friend of mine, and I knew the adoptive father from high school. Today they both seem healthy and happy, with beautiful families of their own. <br /><br />What is the point? Well, I am very sad that I hurt my sons badly by "leaving" them. But I can't imagine how sad it would have been if I had hit or beaten beautiful human beings who were defenseless, unformed and vulnerable. If my son never has anything to do with me, I am sad, but I am so happy that he was raised without abuse or fear, by his adoptive parents. <br /><br />Adoptees, please know that your feelings are respected. Also if you can consider it, perhaps your birth mother had something very bad going on. I think anytime a child is adopted, it is the result of forces that are beyond the control of a birth mother, whether she is a teenager or middle-aged, or anything in between. I often think of Julia Emily, who is no longer on this board, and I felt so sorry for her. My son's feelings are probably the same as hers - that you just "don't give a person away - sorry." I realize the perspective of birth mothers and adoptees are different. <br /><br />In my case, I was hoping that some dialogue or conversation about everything would help my sons to gain peace of mind. In some ways it has, in some way it seems, it has not. So I try to be careful in what I say to my younger son, so as not to hurt him any further, but to be reasssuring. I did write a letter to my older son last winter, and he didn't respond. I will hope but be realistic. I said nothing about any abuse in the letter, as it seems they don't remember anything about it, but apologized for many, many things that were related, but not specific, to, verbal abuse. I don't want them to re-live some very painful memories, not for my sake, but for theirs. <br /><br />Adoptees, any suggestion that questions your pain and sense of loss is not acceptable; not being an expert, I am not saying it has taken place here, it's just that I can see it has triggered a lot of sadness. But even if it seems no-one questions the pain of birth mothers, their experiences and pain may be more than is said.new and oldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17362285131091164702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-6827969895220260792015-09-10T16:21:21.113-04:002015-09-10T16:21:21.113-04:00It seems there is a difference of opinion about Pr...It seems there is a difference of opinion about Primal Wound among adoptees as well as among First Mothers, and the book was written by an adoptive mother, not an adoptee. We are all entitled to our different opinions about any theory or generalization, but not about the inner feelings of anyone about their own life. I fully accept that being adopted has significant and negative effect on many adoptees, and would not dismiss any adoptee who felt this way, or think that those who felt otherwise were in any way better, smarter, or anything else.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-86208680545428066012015-09-10T15:05:56.159-04:002015-09-10T15:05:56.159-04:00I agree, Robin but I do not see where any mother h...I agree, Robin but I do not see where any mother here has said or implied that adoptees should be O.K with having been given up, or that they have not had lasting pain as a result of being given up, or that having been given up has not had a major impact on their lives, so I am not sure who you are talking about.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-52452841824526900622015-09-10T12:01:02.157-04:002015-09-10T12:01:02.157-04:00I appreciate your comment, Anon adopted person, an...I appreciate your comment, Anon adopted person, and agree with what you say. It is disturbing that in the 21st century we adoptees still have to defend the fact that being given up for adoption has had a major impact on our lives, and for many of us a predominantly negative impact. Also, I don't understand why it is accepted that first mothers have lasting pain from relinquishing their children, yet adoptees are expected to be okay with having been given up. <br /><br />The experience you describe of being passed from stranger to stranger, as a helpless, vulnerable infant, until you ended up in a permanent home would have to have had a significant and imo primarily detrimental effect, even if you were too young to remember some or all of these experiences.Robinhttp://www.allinthefamilyadoption.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-64533420082439946672015-09-08T23:27:42.598-04:002015-09-08T23:27:42.598-04:00Anonymous - 2:30 p.m. - I never said I found it ab...Anonymous - 2:30 p.m. - I never said I found it abhorrent. I simply stated that it is essentially the same as PTSD - which by the way is also triggered by an event that is psychologically damaging. As a former foster child, I get the abandonment part of adoption better than most - 6.5 years of living with 13 different families and never having familial contact makes it easy to empathize with - however, I still am trying to understand if PW and PTSD are the same thing, but with a trigger that can't definitively be stated since it is pre-verbal and/or pre-oxygen .... (That would be the scientist in me - and the mother).Lorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05815710859859029536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-29857044999220594992015-09-08T21:52:58.957-04:002015-09-08T21:52:58.957-04:00fyi - There are many adoptees who find the notion ...fyi - There are many adoptees who find the notion of a pw abhorrent and resent an adoptive mother making the claim that one exists for those who are adoptedcincinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-64118519561922485762015-09-08T18:17:30.481-04:002015-09-08T18:17:30.481-04:00Adoptomuss I am so deeply sorry to hear about your...Adoptomuss I am so deeply sorry to hear about your mother. I am thinking of you and sending you my heartfelt condolences xxcherrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-42996127629181833152015-09-08T14:30:13.662-04:002015-09-08T14:30:13.662-04:00"Adopted person" here
I can certainly u..."Adopted person" here<br /><br />I can certainly understand why a birth mother would find the idea of a primal wound abhorrent, though it is a bit disconcerting to read that many mothers who surrendered their own children do not believe that something of that nature exists and actively seek to disprove/disparage the very idea itself.<br /><br />I can acknowledge that there are adoptees out there who seem unfazed by the whole adoption process, those "good adoptees" who just behave and fall right in line with everybody else's expectations and most importantly don't rock the boat. Inside, I am not one of them, but outwardly I function very well and would appear to be perhaps even a "most stable and wonderful adopted person" as described above. I never speak of my adoption,certainly not my "story" to anyone except other adoptees. Only the smallest handful of people even know that I am adopted.<br /><br />Nobody is going to tell me that when my original family decided that I would not be going home with them from the hospital, instead to be taken care of only by strangers before being passed off into foster care to more strangers, then finally to another home when I was adopted was " a minor part of my life". As has been stated by others here, different people feel different things based off of countless individual factors, who are you to tell people that what they are feeling is wrong? <br /><br />Be thankful that your mothers and your original families kept you, it is not a really good way to start out when they don't and it does have a lasting impact on your life, regardless of how much other people may insist to the contrary to fulfill their own needs. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-42712551049489610752015-09-08T09:34:41.191-04:002015-09-08T09:34:41.191-04:00I, in no way intended my observation as a judgemen...I, in no way intended my observation as a judgement of the adoption experience of the adopted person. In fact, I think I was attempting to understand in a way as a mother. Since, after all, I am not an expert on being an adopted person. <br /><br />I do, however understand the psychology of PTSD and how it works. <br /><br />If I offended someone, mia culpa. Again, it was not intended.Lorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05815710859859029536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-84180854731830225282015-09-07T20:39:37.926-04:002015-09-07T20:39:37.926-04:00Thank you Robin.
We are also dealing with an adop...Thank you Robin. <br />We are also dealing with an adoptive mother on a very old post telling us that we are not aware of the good adoptions. We however do not go to adoptive mother blogs and tell them of our pain. Go figure. We all (natural mother and adoptees not happy with adoption) are supposed to stay in the corner and shut up, according to some. <br /><br />Primal Wound is a long time big seller and I guess that adoptees are the largest segment of the buyers. <br /><br /> Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.com