tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post3392950184734617524..comments2024-03-27T20:48:39.389-04:00Comments on [Birth Mother] First Mother Forum: How binding are open-adoption contracts? Lorraine Duskyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comBlogger82125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-35578423402031251512016-02-21T09:43:03.719-05:002016-02-21T09:43:03.719-05:00COMMENTS CLOSED COMMENTS CLOSED<b>COMMENTS CLOSED COMMENTS CLOSED</b>Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-34769726153242124992016-02-21T09:42:58.304-05:002016-02-21T09:42:58.304-05:00You seem to be lumping schizophrenia with all
neu...You seem to be lumping schizophrenia with all <br />neurotic behavior" and "legitimate mental illness." There are hundreds of specific diagnoses of mental illness. They have many different causes. Schizophrenia, referred to specifically above is not caused by infertility. I do believe that infertility can contribute to depression and anxiety, which is a completely different diagnosis than depression. An infertile woman would have to have several risk factors concurrently to develop any mental illness diagnosis.Megannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-87467929643865701232016-02-20T16:55:55.441-05:002016-02-20T16:55:55.441-05:00And btw, I am not saying I want to beat up, hit et...And btw, I am not saying I want to beat up, hit etc, adoptive parents, I am talking about physically taking our information from agencies, social workers, etc., even if it means we have to push and shove them to do it. It means NOT taking no for an answer. I would go to jail for that, would any of you or are you just a bunch of wimps who are to lazy to fight off the dragons and sit beyond a monitor shaking and whining? I think I know the answer to that question and that is why the records aren't going to open. Because people like you just scream out we are submissive, walk all over us, which is exactly what they are going to continue to do.Lets punch them in the nose.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-27557218722732582082016-02-20T13:22:21.123-05:002016-02-20T13:22:21.123-05:00Lisa, you think as an adoptee I don't know wha...Lisa, you think as an adoptee I don't know what an OBC is? Lmao. You obviously don't get that we adoptees can't HAVE our OBC's even when we are adults. All we see is that FAKE amended birth certificate. And you are wrong about those studies, Infertility DOES cause women not only neurotic behavior but legitimate mental illness, mainly because they refuse to accept it. MY AP was NUTS and a drunk so I know all about this. Don't speak for we adoptees, you have no idea what we have been through and have to go through everyday, especially without knowing the truth about our own heritage. In my life it is about ME now, not immature self absorbed infertile women and if any truth I say hurts them, well, tough shit. They sure as hell don't care about hurting us (and natural moms).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-59822133854519135662016-02-20T12:11:23.211-05:002016-02-20T12:11:23.211-05:00Let's punch, I've been admiring your cando...Let's punch, I've been admiring your candor, and your rage is justified - although you now have more venom than rage. Rage is a positive thing, venom is calculated and destructive. That's you. <br /><br />You are spinning your wheels in attacking another FMF member personally. Your arguments are hollow. I won't even get started on Maryanne's history of being out there, in organizations, legislative houses and even the street, working to help adoptees and change the laws - for literally years. You are ignorant of all that. Yikes! <br /><br />To quote you above, "Sitting around bitching and blogging doesn't seem to do a lot of good," as you said to Kaisa. I also laughed at the same post by the way, as it was direct, candid and you said what you think. That's pure honesty, and it provokes a laugh as it is so rare to encounter. <br /><br />I think it's OK to express fantasies about beating and killing. There are several people in my life (my family and the father of my children) who I have wanted to stab, shoot, or kick, and I came very close to doing so on a few occasions. In my view they deserve it. The only thing that has stopped me is the reality of jail. I would remind you that you could make more progress on this issue, if you do not land yourself in jail. <br /><br />Why don't you lay off the "hypocrite honey" argument? It won't help you be heard, it does not clarify your points. <br /><br />Let's punch, you have a good sense of humor and I hope some of it will come through, and we can know you a little better. Perhaps there is more to you than a mad dog. Perhaps not. Up till now you've said some interesting things.new and oldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17362285131091164702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-37528350630939461572016-02-20T10:18:12.056-05:002016-02-20T10:18:12.056-05:00"Amina" must be an infertile adopter vul..."Amina" must be an infertile adopter vulture who lied to a vulnerable pregnant woman to coerce her out of her child. That fake piece of paper birth certificate you hold doesn't mean anything. Also, that child you covet does not see a mother when he/ she looks in your face (because you look nothing like them and because you AREN'T really their mother!) <br /><br />Piss off, witch. Call me Leslienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-35553459621074946912016-02-19T17:19:29.767-05:002016-02-19T17:19:29.767-05:00I doubt she is taking up arms but just expressing ...I doubt she is taking up arms but just expressing her anger. Which is justified. Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-16940938737963316072016-02-19T11:49:26.856-05:002016-02-19T11:49:26.856-05:00No, am not with you if you are advocating violence...No, am not with you if you are advocating violence. Against whom? Random adoptive parents? Social workers? This is not funny, it is frightening. I hope you are not armed, whomever you are. maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-17345987766617871942016-02-19T10:04:30.906-05:002016-02-19T10:04:30.906-05:00How about that for a name Lorraine? (lol). I have ...How about that for a name Lorraine? (lol). I have tried talking to elected officials and they say they will look into it, consider it, etc and then nothing ever happens. It is a proven historical fact that violence is the ONLY effective way to end oppression. The blacks got violent, the indians fought also for a long time. I agree with you. I think it is time to overtake a vital stats office, or walk into an adoption agency and just start taking our info, and if the case workers get in the way, then kick them, hit them, who cares. The hell with them. There are those who say violence is the wrong way, but THEY are violent to us, sealing records is a barbaric act and so is grabbing someone's baby from them. So many adoptive parents are violent against us as many adoptees have been horribly abused, sexually many times too which is the most violent act against a child there is. Social workers are also violent, the way they grab children kicking and screaming away from their parents and shove them into a car. The list goes on and on. I have heard of single mothers tied to beds in maternity homes and given thorizine so they can't fight back. Also violent. All of us have to stop being doormats and victims because they started this war against us first I think it is way beyond time to change the way we protest and I would happy to throw the first punch. Damn it would feel so good! Beating them up would be the best therapy for all of us! It would show all of them they can't push us around anymore the shitheads. Anybody else with me?Lets punch them in the nosenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-74944028112214000882016-02-19T08:37:01.698-05:002016-02-19T08:37:01.698-05:00Anon--I agree that the slowness of the legislature...Anon--I agree that the slowness of the legislatures to change the laws is inexcusable, reprehensible, and I have always thought that a really dramatic action that most would condemn would make people take notice and effect change. Sit-ins, marches, Black Panthers--they moved the Civil Rights Movement forward. I have often thought that a break-in to some state's records files --to steal original birth certificates--would get a lot of attention and maybe make some legislators move. <br /><br />I am not adopted so I have always had no questions about my heritage. But I have been working for unsealing the damn OBC's for more than half my life--and I am in the Seventies! Along with other women, I have been advocating for this since the mid-Seventies! So many of us share your frustration. Blogging does turn people on, as well as provide validation for those hurt by adoption, so it does good. <br /><br />But how many are writing, lobbying their legislatures, educating others, talking about this more critical facet of their lives? Too many are afraid to speak up--mothers are in the closet, adoptees don't want to rock the boat--so we get situations like the adoptive mother in Texas who seemingly single-handedly was able to block a bill. In New York we have same situation--Helene Weinstein, who has done the same. After the death of a recent friend who turned out to be a natural mother in hiding--she would go bananas over unsealing the records, we had epic battles, etc.--I now believe that Weinstein herself had a child and is in deep denial of what that did to the individual, or she is protecting someone who is close to her. <br /><br />States are beginning to change their laws, but lord how long must we wait? <br /><br />Maybe it is time for some sort of attention -grabbing action!! <br /><br />On another note: PLEASE USE THE NAME/URL FUNCTION WHEN YOU POST. You do not need to enter a URL. Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-363287336454734922016-02-19T08:01:06.297-05:002016-02-19T08:01:06.297-05:00@AnonymousFebruary 18, 2016 at 1:35 PM
The OBC is ...@AnonymousFebruary 18, 2016 at 1:35 PM<br />The OBC is a factual document which states the truth about a person's natural parentage, insofar as it is known. When an adopted person retains their OBC and grows up in the knowledge of, and with access to, their family of origin, adoption is not fake. It is a legally binding custodial arrangement. No deceit. No fakery. The OBC is the ultimate reality check in adoption. As Maryanne said, there is no good reason for adoption to include secrets and sealed records. The identity can be known to the adoptive parents and to the adoptee, and in most cases the original parents can have contact.<br /><br />For your interest -- and you may already know this, but just in case you don't, French law includes two types of adoption; one is "adoption simple" which is closer to what North Americans call guardianship, but not the same. A child retains some legal connection with its family of birth, and the birth family continue to have certain obligations towards the child (Such as, as far as I can remember, should the adoptive parent cease to be able to care for the child, the birth parents have some legal responsibility. Also, the child may inherit from both families). The other type of adoption under French law is "plenary adoption" which is more like the North American model in that all links to the original family are severed, I think some South American countries have similar laws to the French.<br /><br />Incidentally, in the late Victorian era, my husband's grandmother was adopted into a family called Scrivener. We don't have the documents so it may have been closer to a wardship, although she did use their surname throughout her life and is recorded on the parish register (marriage certificate) under that name. She considered the Scriveners as her mother and father and loved them accordingly. In the absence of her natural parents they filled that role, but she always knew they were not her biological family. Nothing fake about that. So certainly there are alternate legal arrangements that can be made for children who would otherwise not have families. Some are more flexible, some more secure and permanent, depending on the particular nature and the need.<br /><br />Your comments about schizophrenia and mental illness are clearly intended to hurt and offend. As Kaisa rightly says, it is untrue that many studies have concluded that many women develop schizophrenia as a result of infertility. There is a strong genetic component to schizophrenia and as somone else commented, women who develop the illness after being diagnosed as infertile might have done so anyway. Also, a recent study indicates that fertility rates are on the rise among women with schizophrenia, <br />http://www.womenshealthmatters.ca/feature-articles/feature-articles/fertility-rates-are-rising-in-women-with-schizophrenia<br />to the point that they are hardly less fertile than women in the general population. It also gives reasons why this seems to be the case. The same study concludes by saying women with schizophrenia can, with proper care and the treatment they deserve, be good mothers.<br /><br />Excuse me now while I go and get another glass of wine ;-)Lisanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-29582057043349660282016-02-19T07:55:43.812-05:002016-02-19T07:55:43.812-05:00Kaisa Gwendolyn, why are you laughing at me? All a...Kaisa Gwendolyn, why are you laughing at me? All adoptees are the little match girl when it comes to rights. And all adoptive parents are the kings and queens. They get to buy all the power(which they don't deserve). (The following is a general statement and not said just to KG). I am over 40 and still do not know the truth about my real parents and it is to the point now I want to punch someone in the nose, I am so pissed off and so sick of this crap. Maybe that is the problem,, none of us give them what they deserve, arrogant ap's, social workers, adoption agency employees and so on. Maybe if we beat the hell out of them like they deserve they'd finally take us seriously. Sitting around bitching and blogging doesn't seem to do a lot of good.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-64105765481727712016-02-18T19:01:01.627-05:002016-02-18T19:01:01.627-05:00Amina, I think you are an AP? If that is true, I ...Amina, I think you are an AP? If that is true, I am going to give some unsolicited advice: adoption isn't about you. So don't take it all so personally when first moms and adoptees vent about their frustrations with the system, especially those who had a horrible experience. They are the ones who have to live with it. My daughter has to live with it. My daughter's parents have to live with it. I have to understand and support their feelings because I am the least impacted. <br /><br />Most especially don't take it all so personally when you are visiting a blog specifically created by and for first mothers to "share news and opinions. And vent." Just step back and take the opportunity to listen to those who represent people most impacted by adoption. Just my two cents.Tiffanynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-3443058968293203452016-02-18T18:24:26.377-05:002016-02-18T18:24:26.377-05:00The purpose of adoption as marketed by its practit...The purpose of adoption as marketed by its practitioners, social workers, attorneys, adoption agencies, is to ensure the child of a better life. The crapshoot of who a child is born to is not in the same category as a purposeful, volitional act to place a child in a family other than the one s/he was born into in order to improve his life. For that reason, I find arguments that bio-parents also abuse or murder their offspring to be a red herring.Robinhttp://www.allinthefamilyadoption.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-68508255026544626642016-02-18T17:54:37.811-05:002016-02-18T17:54:37.811-05:00Yes, I was quoting from a summary, Lorraine. I too...Yes, I was quoting from a summary, Lorraine. I too paused at the word but I am not sure that in this case it is disguising or distorting anything. I would have to get hold of the study itself. <br /><br />What it does suggest is that children may be at risk in different kinds of circumstances. For example, when step-children were killed, nine out of ten accused were step-fathers. (Again, the summary used the word "accused.") So there you have within a certain parenting situation a risk associated with gender, it seems, with respect to filicide. Jessnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-22325975738901602762016-02-18T17:44:57.165-05:002016-02-18T17:44:57.165-05:00Re the study about infertility: "Danish resea...Re the study about infertility: "Danish researchers have found women who remained childless <i>after their first work-up for infertility...</i><br />They went for a workup--which is rather a big deal physically, as I understand it, because they wanted children...so they were disappointed. They were not women who simply did not have children. Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-12094546698464749342016-02-18T17:36:57.279-05:002016-02-18T17:36:57.279-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16571106249207987994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-87346808241305904272016-02-18T17:35:12.053-05:002016-02-18T17:35:12.053-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16571106249207987994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-39522553825700497122016-02-18T17:35:05.454-05:002016-02-18T17:35:05.454-05:00Jess, this bald statement "most of the accuse...Jess, this bald statement "most of the accused were the biological parents" does not indicate that if this was the statistical conclusion. Since way more children are not adopted, but raised by their biological parents, this makes sense in terms of gross numbers. Clarify?<br /> Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-33951387278842252602016-02-18T17:15:55.378-05:002016-02-18T17:15:55.378-05:00Actually, it's the other way around. Schizophr...Actually, it's the other way around. Schizophrenia is associated with impaired fertility. It is unlikely that the infertile "develop" schizophrenia because of infertility--more likely that the woman is going to develop schizophrenia anyway, since there is a genetic factor. The study simply identified more hospitalizations for psychiatric disorders such as schizophrenia, in other words, the disease manifested itself. By the way, schizophrenia does not automatically make anyone unfit to be around children. There are plenty of people with schizophrenia who take medication and are good parents. Some of the other things you said are just plain offensive. <br /><br />Another study says women with schizophrenia are now having more children because the second-generation antipsychotic drugs don't interfere with conception as much as older medications. Jessnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-42131623892566614082016-02-18T13:35:20.567-05:002016-02-18T13:35:20.567-05:00Lisa-adoption will always be fake. A mother was al...Lisa-adoption will always be fake. A mother was always what a mother meant BEFORE adoption ever existed. A mother means the woman who carries for 9 months and gives birth to the baby inside her. NO other woman was ever called that word pertaining to the baby because only one woman could be that and every person alive only has one mother. A mother also meant raising that baby, no matter how much money was available to her, no matter if she was a widow. Female strangers off the street who have nothing to do with conceiving and birthing an infant were only called mothers after adoption started and they paid the fee for that tittle. Adoptees are supposed to feel these strangers are as important as our mothers (which they are not) because we were bought by them. That is called NOT being in reality. Yup, adoption is fake and always will be but the resentment, frustration and pain adoptive mothers cause us will always be real. Incidentally mental health professionals and others are conducted many studies that concluded that many infertile women develop a schizophrenic type condition due to infertility and a ton of them have drinking problems. That makes most of them unfit to be around kids anyway and why they so easily can delude themselves with all the adoption agenda crap.<br />http://psychcentral.com/news/2012/07/03/fertility-problems-increase-risk-for-mental-disorders/41093.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-41121659722097461902016-02-18T12:36:32.101-05:002016-02-18T12:36:32.101-05:00Very few women actually do not want children--I th...Very few women actually do not want children--I think it holds steady from generation to generation at something like 6%. After accounting for all those who would have successfully prevented pregnancy, the number of women who do not want to raise a child would be very, very small, and the number who should not, perhaps slightly larger. I agree that with such a small but defined group, the need for open adoption would probably be pretty minimal too. This should not prevent any child from having all of his or her information or legal adults from calling whomever they wish "family." Jessnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-61277560212609910612016-02-18T11:06:06.688-05:002016-02-18T11:06:06.688-05:00Well, I think you are overstating the case somewha...Well, I think you are overstating the case somewhat. In reality, no one ever knows what the future will hold but adults are still entitled to make decisions that are the best ones for them, whether or not other people like it. <br /><br />Coincidentally, a Canadian researcher recently looked into the subject of filicide (killing of a child under the age of 18) by poring over Statistics Canada data from 1961 to 2011 and concluded that most of the accused were the biological parents. This in no way diminishes the awfulness of the case or the fact that several adopted children have been killed by their a-parents. <br /><br />I do wonder about this adoption. It doesn't seem typical as the mother was old enough to be the child's grandmother, which vaguely made me wonder if it was a kinship adoption. In any case, by all accounts, their relationship was a good one and the husband was the cause of the tragedy. Jessnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-44797529512554058422016-02-18T08:06:38.752-05:002016-02-18T08:06:38.752-05:00Actually, Amina, you sound as if you are an angry...Actually, Amina, you sound as if you are an angry adoptive parent who is upset/pissed off with open adoption for your own reasons, perhaps children you have adopted with one of those "semi-open" agreements that you wish to slam shut. This is not the forum for you. Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-35667517348789115392016-02-18T08:02:31.547-05:002016-02-18T08:02:31.547-05:00Amina, see below. Amina, see below. Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.com