tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post4588836068714621521..comments2024-03-27T20:48:39.389-04:00Comments on [Birth Mother] First Mother Forum: Normal in one family may be seen as abnormal in anotherLorraine Duskyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comBlogger60125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-65257135897861922882012-06-17T19:00:34.967-04:002012-06-17T19:00:34.967-04:00Lorraine, I was away on vacation so I didn't g...Lorraine, I was away on vacation so I didn't get to read the more recent comments when they were first posted, but thanks for what you said about me - that's very kind.<br /><br />:-)Zannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-8587124379949456812012-06-03T19:30:47.983-04:002012-06-03T19:30:47.983-04:00Anon, even if I had a family hx of Huntington'...Anon, even if I had a family hx of Huntington's I would want to know! Cold comfort is indeed better than ignorance of EVERYTHING. I could choose not to be tested for it, for example, but know it ran in my family if I had access to my relatives. I still don't know anything about half of my medical history except what MDs have stumbled upon in tests. I would rather know. Ignorance isn't golden or bliss, but knowledge gives a person choices. I don't think any of us are laboring under rainbows that you think us to be.ms. marginaliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03854609171313401651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-77237459456464107232012-06-01T13:06:18.866-04:002012-06-01T13:06:18.866-04:00Triona said that for someone to say to her "O...Triona said that for someone to say to her "Oh, no, it's fine, your aunt/cousin/grandmother had that" would mean the world, and I understand that, but it is not always reassuring to know one's family history, even though it is something to which everyone deserves the right. <br />Someone dear to me has three close biological relatives who died slowly and painfully from an incurable and unavoidable degenerative disease that has a strong hereditary predisposition. This person has been diagnosed with the same illness, and knows only too well what kind of future to expect. I know of other similar instances. <br />I do not mean to be dismissive but want to dispel any ideas that may be out there that knowledge of medical history is always reassuring, or that family can always offer much in the way of consolation when they too know the hard facts. <br />Of course it is better to know than not to know, but knowledge, even when it is a comfort, can be very cold comfort indeed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-86540642661685971292012-06-01T11:26:02.877-04:002012-06-01T11:26:02.877-04:00Anonymous Anonymous said...
"ADOPTEES DE...Anonymous Anonymous said...<br /><br /> "ADOPTEES DESERVE THE RIGHT TO THEIR IDENTITIES, NO EXCEPTIONS."<br /> I'm sure all the commentators on this thread would agree with you about that."<br /><br />I certainly agree and hope all others would as well, however much we may disagree on other issues.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-12119105749757517912012-06-01T06:46:25.174-04:002012-06-01T06:46:25.174-04:00Also quoting Ms. Marginalia's wonderful remark...Also quoting Ms. Marginalia's wonderful remark: <br /><br />"But it would *still* have been isolating not to be able to speak to someone who knew what it was like to *live* with the illness in practical terms...But to know that someone with my same genetic make up was out there and *could* have provided emotional/psychological support? That would have been hard to live with, indeed."<br /><br />Oh, yes. It is.<br /><br />I recently went through (am going through) a medical situation. The physical aspects are bad enough... but knowing that my first family is out there and may have information that could help me? Knowing I have absolutely no way to get that information, especially since I have a denial of contact on file? A little reassurance at this point would mean the world: "Oh, no, it's fine, your aunt/cousin/grandmother had that."<br /><br />Instead I must endure alone, and worry for my children. It makes the entire situation INFINITELY worse.Triona Guidryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00969598333210972017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-58871374025291409402012-05-31T19:31:51.802-04:002012-05-31T19:31:51.802-04:00"ADOPTEES DESERVE THE RIGHT TO THEIR IDENTITI..."ADOPTEES DESERVE THE RIGHT TO THEIR IDENTITIES, NO EXCEPTIONS."<br />I'm sure all the commentators on this thread would agree with you about that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-70056584073613172442012-05-31T17:40:13.145-04:002012-05-31T17:40:13.145-04:00Marginalia, thanks for the informed comment, and M...Marginalia, thanks for the informed comment, and Melynda with speaking up, and Zan if you ae back, great comment without rancor. The points you all make are clear and as obvious as the nose on anyone's face, and to deny them is to deny reality. Yes, some kids will seem like they came from another planet but in the end some traits and similarities--perhaps with more distant relatives--will pop up and be recognized. <br /><br />Every time I go to the doctor and have to fill out of new form on family history, I think how tough it must be to write <i>unknown</i> or <i>adopted</i> at the top. Yet as we still have hope to change the law in New York this year, I got an email telling us not to use the word "discriminated" because it puts off some legislators. Okay, maybe they got tired of the language when they passed the gay-marriage bill, but I also thought WTF, adoptees are discriminated against just as much, or perhaps, even more. Any breast cancer run in your family? Heart disease, Mr. or Ms. Legislator? Oh, I see, you know the answer to that. Well, adoptees don't. It is discrimination no matter what you want to name it. <br /><br />ADOPTEES DESERVE THE RIGHT TO THEIR IDENTITIES, NO EXCEPTIONS.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-74791203879233152922012-05-31T14:42:55.993-04:002012-05-31T14:42:55.993-04:00**Yawn.** I think dear Anon just wants to pick a f...**Yawn.** I think dear Anon just wants to pick a fight with me. **Stretch** B.o.r.i.n.g Go find some other natural mother to pick on, Anon. I'm not nibbling at your bait today. <br /><br />Ms. Marginalia said: <br /><br />"But it would *still* have been isolating not to be able to speak to someone who knew what it was like to *live* with the illness in practical terms...But to know that someone with my same genetic make up was out there and *could* have provided emotional/psychological support? That would have been hard to live with, indeed."<br /><br />This, a thousand times. And knowing people who share my son's genetic propensity for debilitating anxiety, clinical depression, and OCD and being able to rely on their cumulative wisdom to help him along the path to adulthood is invaluable to me as a parent. I had always assumed it would be for an adoptive parent, as well, but from the sound of folks like Anon, I guess it isn't all that important after all. If they have enough love and money to buy "special helps," it trumps genetics every time. At least that's my take-away-from Anon's comments.Melyndahttp://letterstomsfeverfew.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-20940036264464076272012-05-31T12:26:27.499-04:002012-05-31T12:26:27.499-04:00It is nice that Obi-One-So-Boring is able to stop ...It is nice that Obi-One-So-Boring is able to stop by and share her lack of wisdom with us all.<br /><br />"There is no magic in Dna" well clearly there is none in yours. There is quite a bit in my line. But yes, you are right God made the tiger and the worm, all creatures great and small, slugs and lions all have their place. Just ask Blake.Joynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-24552072201413908902012-05-30T20:03:01.405-04:002012-05-30T20:03:01.405-04:00Anon 6:62PM wrote:
"it would not do much for...Anon 6:62PM wrote:<br /><br />"it would not do much for the child to point to other family members similarly afflicted if that were the case."<br /><br />Why not? If other family members suffered from epilepsy (which in Lorraine's family they don't, but let's say for argument's sake in another family epilepsy is hereditary--and yes, Correctors, such types of epilepsy exist), a child might find comfort in having relatives who could understand what she was going through, people who had walked a similar path. <br /><br />If a child/person has someone in the family who has struggled with a particular medical issue or disease, it might *not* (but it also *might*) be helpful psychologically to that child/person to have someone to talk to about it, especially if it's an isolating disease or condition. At least she might not feel alone with yet another thing coming out of the black hole of what her body might do to her.<br /><br />Yes, information is needed, help is needed, But it sometimes cannot be the aparents providing it. It's hard not knowing about your own body (here, biology really *does* matter), and devastating to be asked to fill out medical history forms and have no information to give. <br /><br />Blood disorders and autoimmune diseases run deeply through my first family, to the degree that one of my maternal uncles died of MS at the age of 55; a cousin lost two limbs to lupus and committed suicide at the age of 45 because of the burdens of the disease; my grandfather died of complications from myasthenia gravis; and on and on. These autoimmune disorders manifest themselves (in my family) in the teens and 20's. There is nothing like this, at all, in my adoptive families' medical histories. I am fortunate that I haven't (yet) been found to have any of these diseases, although I had tested at several times (before reunion) as though I am susceptible to autoimmune disease. At the time, my MDs just said, "Oh, you are positive for antinuclear antibodies. What is your family history of autoimmune disorders?" I could only shrug my shoulders and say I wished that I knew.<br /><br />If I had had lupus and been the only one in my afamily with it, my aparents would have done their very best to help me. But it would *still* have been isolating not to be able to speak to someone who knew what it was like to *live* with the illness in practical terms. Yes, there are support groups, etc. I would have made do. <br /><br />But to know that someone with my same genetic make up was out there and *could* have provided emotional/psychological support? That would have been hard to live with, indeed.ms. marginaliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03854609171313401651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-16019248105507076462012-05-29T21:38:53.825-04:002012-05-29T21:38:53.825-04:00Sorry for the delay here on a fresh blog. My shoul...Sorry for the delay here on a fresh blog. My shoulder/bicep is causing trouble, and recovery is unusually slow. Typing can only be done in short bursts. Also, I may have injured myself the other day doing physical therapy. <br /><br />Cool. :)Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-74366699919645737662012-05-29T18:26:59.939-04:002012-05-29T18:26:59.939-04:00Some kids are not "A-OK just as they are"...Some kids are not "A-OK just as they are" no matter who raises them or how many other family members have similar problems.The original post was about a child with severe epilepsy that required interventions like wearing a helmet that protected her safety, but worsened her self esteem. There is no easy answer for a parent dealing with a dilemma like that. Pretending everything is OK when it is not is not the answer, and it would not do much for the child to point to other family members similarly afflicted if that were the case.<br /><br />Some parenting issues are more difficult than a child being obsessed with Star Wars or more like Dad than Mom. That is where special help is needed in families of all kinds, no matter how much information the parents have or lack. More information helps, and adoptive parents should have access to as much as possible, but there may still need to be other interventions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-73542186257299570082012-05-29T17:51:16.115-04:002012-05-29T17:51:16.115-04:00I am currently in the throes of parenting a child ...I am currently in the throes of parenting a child who is *nothing* like me, aside from his dark-chocolate colored eyes and his voracious appetite for reading. Other than that...I. do. not. get. this. kid. <br /><br />If I didn't know the other half of his biology, courtesy of my husband, with all their behavior quirks, craving for solitude, their ability to **COMPLETELY** tune out everything around them, their propensity for OCD and anxiety-related disorders, and their obsession with all things Star-Wars, I would be at a loss as to what to do as his mother some days. But since I *do* have that knowledge, I can call up one of my sister-in-laws and say, "How did you handle things when Bobby did XYZ?" or "Is it normal within your family to act this way?" or "Holy cow, when Boy #2 did such-and-such today, he sounded JUST like your brother!" <br /><br />It helps both him AND me be better people. He gets to see people who have his unusual preferences and learns he is A-OK, just as he is. More importantly, *I* get to see people who have his unusual preferences and know he is A-OK because that is just "how they are" on my husband's side of the family. Knowing his biology helps reduce my anxiety as his parent, which then allows me to be more fully engaged in parenting him in ways that are appropriate for him.<br /><br />I often wonder what it would be like for him to be raised in an adoptive family where he didn't see any of these things reflected back to him by his Aunt Amanda or Uncle Todd or Cousin Patrick. It would most likely be a disorienting and lonely world in which to exist and I imagine it would bring on another layer of issues he would have to manage.<br /><br />And then I think of the adoptive mother who might end up with a child who is as markedly different from herself as my son is from me - how would she navigate these same complexities without any reflection of what may be "normal" in temperament or behavior for her adopted child? I don't know the answer for that, but I do know parenting my second son has helped me understand a great deal more what it must be like for an adoptee to be raised in an environment completely devoid of any markers that might provide clues for him, clue which say, "You are A-OK, just as you are." That would be hard. Beyond hard, actually.Melyndahttp://letterstomsfeverfew.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-5152199178145128052012-05-29T11:26:06.455-04:002012-05-29T11:26:06.455-04:00Early on in my relationship with my relinquished d...Early on in my relationship with my relinquished daughter she asked if I had ever been treated for depression or had thoughts of suicide. I had never been treated for depression but knew I had suffered with it at certain times in my life. Thoughts of suicide never arose. She had been treated as a teenager for both. She went on to ask her first father the same question. It is my understanding that he told her he had thoughts of suicide as a teen. I haven't gone into any depth with her on this but think that it wasn't anything she or her parents had experienced in her adoptive family and was curious as to whether she had inherited it from either one of us. <br />I think it is one reason why closed records have done so much damage. If these things are known they can be treated with much less speculation or placing blame on first mothers. In addition, some of these so called abnormalties can come from the father.<br /> The bottom line is the help should be there no matter what the origin.<br /><br />Lorraine,<br /> My daughter and I too find enjoyment in the many charcteristics and likes that we share. She calls them our "sweet connections". They do stand out in a different way than the natural connections I share with my raised daughter.<br /> I'm glad that you and Jane shared those moments too.Janetnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-61061169739241454432012-05-29T10:12:20.123-04:002012-05-29T10:12:20.123-04:00Nature vs. Nurture. The debate has been going on f...Nature vs. Nurture. The debate has been going on forever and will continue to go on forever. But does it really matter? Even if every child kept by their bio-parents was incredibly different from them and every adopted child was incredibly similar to their adopted parents it wouldn't make all of these unnecessary adoptions any better.Robinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-35893081285608171042012-05-29T02:37:00.110-04:002012-05-29T02:37:00.110-04:00An adoptee here, very happy with what Zan said to ...An adoptee here, very happy with what Zan said to take us back to the salient points. I greatly dislike feeling corrected if I see something of myself in both my families. I love finding out things that I have in common with my first family; it's wonderful, especially when my husband or kids or even my aparents point things out, unbidden. "Oh, THAT'S where you get that quirk from!" It helps me feel grounded. On the other hand, I share many experiences and interests with my aparents that I don't with my first family. And that's okay. It comes with the territory of being adopted, and has to be accepted as such.<br /><br />As for mental illness: yes, I have it. There is none to speak of in my afamily, and there is quite a bit in my first family, including depression and suicide. When I first struggled with mental illness as a teen, I know it freaked my aparents out and they said some rather unhelpful things when I started cutting, stemming chiefly from my amom: "I am almost as embarrassed of you as I would have been if you were pregnant." Which clearly has to do with my being adopted and her fear that I would follow in my mother's footsteps. Nice. But after that, they got me counseling, etc. I know they love me, but they have never, will never *get* that part of me. Not that my first family will necessarily, either; they shove mental illness under the rug and cope by looking askance at those who are depressed (although many are on antidepressants, etc.). I suppose it's more normative. Still, they love me, too, and I can count on them for support--they haven't minded my brand of the family illness. <br /><br />Perhaps my exacerbations of mental illness would not have been as severe if I'd not been adopted, but we will never know. They might have been worse. It's the road not taken.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-25924702673999660182012-05-28T18:40:49.611-04:002012-05-28T18:40:49.611-04:00Ageeing with Zan, she says it all and says it clea...Ageeing with Zan, she says it all and says it clearly and well.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-78098148574087931052012-05-28T12:50:11.077-04:002012-05-28T12:50:11.077-04:00Thanks for the dispassionate and sound good sense,...Thanks for the dispassionate and sound good sense, Zan.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-28974747282473649652012-05-28T12:47:28.668-04:002012-05-28T12:47:28.668-04:00When I met my daughter she was 15 going on 16. I d...When I met my daughter she was 15 going on 16. I didn't have any expectations one way or the other; as I got to know her over the years, we found more similarities over time. Our shared traits seemed normal, and we both enjoyed them in a way that you don't think about when you are raised by your natural parents. Considering the realities, I also did not find it weird to get to know my daughter when I did. It was the natural occurance of my relinquishing her. <br /><br />Her parents (adoptive) were also middle-class people of the same religious background (Catholic) and they were practicing Catholics, as was my mother. I am not. In many ways, her upbringing on certain levels was not unlike what it might have been if I had been married at the time of my daughter's birth and brought her up. She commented on this one time when she noticed I had a magazine subscription to one of the same magazines her mother did. Yes, there were differences in talents and interests between the two families, but many practical matters were the same. My original post here was about their lack of background on our daughter when she had seizures, and how this might have affected how they reacted to those seizures and the resultant side effects. <br /><br />Interestingly, her (adoptive) parents much prefer my brother's wife to me; she's a practical, non-artistic person in a medical field. But of course what she also has going for her is that she was not biologically related to "our" daughter. Yes, her amom would sometimes refer to Jane that way; I was always quietly thrilled when she did. It felt generous, and right.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-54238307492800878872012-05-27T21:48:00.492-04:002012-05-27T21:48:00.492-04:00And, sorry--Anonymouses, one of you said:
"I...And, sorry--Anonymouses, one of you said:<br /><br />"If the child is the genetic and biological child of a natural parent, that parent understands many things that a non genetic related person would."<br /><br />I said that genetics does not guarantee understanding. I never said that YOU did not understand your child. Big diff.Obi-Wan Kenobinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-17916547200252477442012-05-27T21:46:54.958-04:002012-05-27T21:46:54.958-04:00It's kind of sad that a discussion about provi...It's kind of sad that a discussion about providing mental health help and appropriate educational support to adoptees seems to have turned into a bragging competition about who is the more important mommy. <br /><br />Really, is there any point to that?<br /><br />It is obvious that genetics, family history, and heritage are a major source of connection, and an important source of knowledge about a person.<br /><br />It is also obvious that raising a child, spending time with them, talking and listening to the child, and seeing each other on a regular basis is <i>also</i> a major source of connection, and an important source of knowledge about a person.<br /><br />To me, it just seems to defy logic to attempt to negate either relationship - and acknowledging one doesn't mean denying the other.<br /><br />I think the focus here needs to be on making sure adoptees get the help they need without being pathologized when they don't need help, rather than on trying to demonstrate one's own parental superiority.<br /><br />It isn't a contest, and the adoptee shouldn't be treated as the score card to determine which side "won."Zannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-54106762427740661872012-05-27T21:37:15.612-04:002012-05-27T21:37:15.612-04:00Anonymous and Anonymous, you haven't provided ...Anonymous and Anonymous, you haven't provided any evidence for your opinion. I would wager that a huge percentage of natural parents do not understand their children. In fact, it is "genes producing genes" tht leads to the ill-informed idea that "Junior will be just like me". You want to believe it but you are wrong. It is just one of so many ideas about biology, environment, and culture--and the way they interact--that screw up kids and disappoint parents. <br /><br />Family is tyranny. Get over it.Obi-Wan Kenobinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-85290719844346165072012-05-27T20:14:53.863-04:002012-05-27T20:14:53.863-04:00I guess it is all in how you view your experience....I guess it is all in how you view your experience. I did not find getting to know my son as an adult bizarre or uncanny. Not even unusual, given the number of reunited people I have known over the years. I feel incredibly grateful and amazed that I got to know my son at all, and that he is the fine man that he is. He and the sons I raised are similar in some ways, different in others. I think I expected that so was not shocked.<br /><br />I recognize that my experience and my reaction to it is different from some, because we are all different people, and some of us are dealing with very different circumstances.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-56196951915438581802012-05-27T18:55:04.664-04:002012-05-27T18:55:04.664-04:00Maryanne I was using the term "uncanny" ...Maryanne I was using the term "uncanny" because it was surprising to me how much we are alike after I got to know him. Moreover, thanks to adoption, I used uncanny because I find the whole getting to know your own flesh and blood when they are an adult bizarre. I know it is heredity and I do happen to think being genetically related gives one insight others may not have, though I know it does not make us EXPERTS on another human being. Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-27160703240865159972012-05-27T15:13:46.707-04:002012-05-27T15:13:46.707-04:00It's odd, my own experience was that I was ver...It's odd, my own experience was that I was very much like my father and his family growing up--and looked like his sister instead of my mother--but as I got older I recognized in myself many of my mother's traits--not all ones that I admired! But there they were.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.com