tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post4818262855856926822..comments2024-03-27T20:48:39.389-04:00Comments on [Birth Mother] First Mother Forum: When is the right time to contact your natural parent?Lorraine Duskyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comBlogger64125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-35840884127846995642015-05-18T21:27:47.892-04:002015-05-18T21:27:47.892-04:00Thanks, Lorraine, hadn't thought of it that wa...Thanks, Lorraine, hadn't thought of it that way. I just always worry about what she will think about being left. But this is a good way of explaining it. Michellenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-27137490237144697272015-05-18T16:11:44.231-04:002015-05-18T16:11:44.231-04:00You think deep shadows, film noir- settings, dark ...You think deep shadows, film noir- settings, dark skies, low light and a good possibility of working in case of a certain type of teen by way of "Jeez mum, stop being such a self accusing drama queen, I'll call her." do have a place in parent-child dialogue??? From my point of view manipulating them is something we do all the time when raising children, just think of something like going with or against gender roles when selecting gifts. Theodorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14634057445114838262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-867355043280022322015-05-18T15:49:52.735-04:002015-05-18T15:49:52.735-04:00Yes, it does, what it says is: IT IS COMPLICATED. ...Yes, it does, what it says is: IT IS COMPLICATED. I did state my personal relations to adoption, different as they are based on the definitions used. My relationship with a specific woman who denied her child to know her as a mother, can be simply defined as grandchild, but that was not the question, so I could not give a simple answer without knowingly telling a lie too.Theodorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14634057445114838262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-81841376266604862682015-05-18T11:54:24.888-04:002015-05-18T11:54:24.888-04:00Michelle, JE, let me say here that a lot of times ...Michelle, JE, let me say here that a lot of times the mothers do not know what happens to their children when they are signing the termination of parental responsibility papers. They can be told their are wealthy, delightful people taking their children--when that is not at all true! So before you feel terrible about this (and I know JE that you do) PLEASE consider that the mothers involved here had no idea what was happening next. JE, that is especially true in your case since you are not in your twenties.... Natural mothers are told nearly nothing except that everything is going to be fine and willing parents are taking the baby home that day! So Michelle, please present that information to your daughter when the times comes, and JE, that is almost certainly how it was for your mother. <br /><br />The lack of information given natural mothers when relinquishing was possibly done "for their own good" but we have seen here time and time again how that ended up hurting everyone involved. <br /><br />I learned that the granddaughter my own daughter gave up was raised by nuns for 18 months--while her father who had wanted custody went to visit her! I don't really know what my daughter knew, but she told me about the fabulous biracial couple whom she said she met. All BS. Obviously, since she died in 2007, I can't confront her and ask her. Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-81138230338244587122015-05-18T11:32:42.551-04:002015-05-18T11:32:42.551-04:00Julia Emily, my daughter is in your exact situatio...Julia Emily, my daughter is in your exact situation. Her first mother gave birth and fled (abandoning her) in a facility. She was 38. I am sure that once this sinks in, it will be very painful information for her (she is currently 10 years old). Hugs to you.<br />MichelleMichellenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-86883223413308903772015-05-18T06:06:52.302-04:002015-05-18T06:06:52.302-04:00That is not an answer, it is an evasion. It remind...That is not an answer, it is an evasion. It reminds me of Bill Clinton's "I never had sex with that woman" then quibbling about the definition of "sex". Most of us here have no trouble identifying ourselves as natural mothers, adoptees, or adoptive parents, with a few grandparents, siblings and other relatives, natural and adoptive, here and there. Once in a while we get a social worker or a person just interested in the topic, but they too are upfront about who they are, especially if asked.<br /><br />You presume to give personal advice to others here on how to relate to their children, deal with their families, and judge them by their personal relation to adoption, but you refuse to state your own. That, I think speaks for itself.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-91382921866534324272015-05-18T01:25:45.005-04:002015-05-18T01:25:45.005-04:00It depends on your definitions of "personal&q...It depends on your definitions of "personal", "connection" and "adoption".<br />Either part of it is deeply offensive as modern day pet slave trade, harming the human rights of the adoptee (and so on), or it is an interesting behavioral, social, legal and ethical phenomenon, or it is the fury of the later generation of a family hit by adoption or none at all, it just depends on your definitions. Theodorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14634057445114838262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-31017227242798870422015-05-17T19:25:28.200-04:002015-05-17T19:25:28.200-04:00What rule is that, and which mothers, adoptive or ...What rule is that, and which mothers, adoptive or natural? Apologize for what? You do not give enough information. Your comment is puzzling.<br /><br /> The subject was Liz' adoption and her question about her daughter's estrangement from her birthmother who had cut off communication in an open adoption and now wants to reconnect. Very specific. Advice, some relevant, some not, was given. Is this the same topic you are referring to?maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-26444189076044645302015-05-17T17:38:31.481-04:002015-05-17T17:38:31.481-04:00Jess, this isn't the only adoption in town. M...Jess, this isn't the only adoption in town. Mothers are expected to apologize to their children, not just this one but as a rule. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-91011087389514442512015-05-17T12:31:30.489-04:002015-05-17T12:31:30.489-04:00The adoption doesn't even sound coerced. It wa...The adoption doesn't even sound coerced. It was entirely open and all parties behaved with accountability until Ellen decided to relocate and taper off her relationship with her daughter. A-mom has nothing to apologize for. She didn't make up Ellen's mind for her. Twice. <br /><br /><br />Jessnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-15564542538221945012015-05-17T05:28:59.664-04:002015-05-17T05:28:59.664-04:00Liz, I just wanted to say I have great respect for...Liz, I just wanted to say I have great respect for you. What I see in your post is someone who is respectful of the humanity of everyone in the situation. It is so easy to theorize or judge or jump to easy conclusions but the reality of us as human beings is that we are not perfect, we are all vulnerable, we try our best, and we often don't know what to do. Thank you so much for contributing here, I appreciate your voice.Cherrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-10885643887275092602015-05-16T20:21:50.678-04:002015-05-16T20:21:50.678-04:00Theodore, what is your personal connection to adop...Theodore, what is your personal connection to adoption?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-40225726169419237982015-05-16T16:01:39.035-04:002015-05-16T16:01:39.035-04:00I agree with Theodore. How can the adoptee not fe...I agree with Theodore. How can the adoptee not feel anger and frustration at the natural mother when the message is couched in terms of abandonment, no matter how coerced it was. If mothers are expected to apologize to their children upon reunion, no matter how little control they had over the situation and how they too had been abandoned by everyone who was supposed to support them, why can't an adoptive mother claim and apologize for her part in the whole thing, especially if it will make things easier and clearer for the now adult child they adopted? It just makes good sense. <br /><br />Sandy YoungAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-11067266618169078582015-05-16T14:14:19.185-04:002015-05-16T14:14:19.185-04:00I have to share that if I were Liz, I would run fa...I have to share that if I were Liz, I would run far and fast from this forum, based on Theodore's absurb assertions. We have no more knowledge that Liz was ¨responsible¨ for Ellen leaving her baby ( twice) or that she forced anything at any time. That is the problem with broad sweeping accusastions. For that matter, we don't know why Ellen left her child in the first place. She may have been coerced or not. I recently witnessed a coworker's daughter ( post college I might add) make a decision to place a child for adoption (AFTER taking the baby home from the hospital) despite some familial support and the ability to raise a child herself. Also despite my sitting down and sharing my own experiences with her. STILL, she made that choice. Theodore's advice won't apply for that one day reunion. There was no ¨demand¨ or coercion. <br /><br />Some have offered real and authentic advice that maybe she can apply to her own ongoing situation with her teen daughter. Others offered judgements and glib sarcasm. <br /><br />@Jan Louise, why do we need to assign blame at all in this post? The original topic was when/how to approach reunion. The deed is done, the affects in place. Why the need to assign blame when someone reaches out in a honest way for help? I don't think she even asked for help, but rather was sharing her own situation.<br /><br />Semantics or English skills aside, an authentic question or rather a situation was shared; is it really our job to judge? And if so, to what end?<br /><br />As a First Mom, I am happy to read Liz's earnest interest in keeping the relationship open between her teen daughter and her FM. Isn't that the best possible scenario given the current situation. We can't go back and undo the past, so moving forward is the only option.<br /><br />Carol<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-37382168684543821892015-05-16T08:10:32.422-04:002015-05-16T08:10:32.422-04:00I think I agree with Theodore. I feel some are bei...I think I agree with Theodore. I feel some are being deliberately obtuse with his english skills and yet others are blaming everyone else other than the demand = profit sector.Jan Louisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01275804204213681445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-40377547576765416092015-05-16T02:51:28.789-04:002015-05-16T02:51:28.789-04:00@Anonymous, I do not see why an adoptive parent ca...@Anonymous, I do not see why an adoptive parent cannot try to solve that issue, in circumstances in which it is known to be factually true: "You were not given away by her, you were stolen from her (by manipulation, force or trickery) by people I paid.". I do not understand what you find highly offensive about that, it just assumes that for a moment the adopter is willing to accept (more than) a fair share of the blame. Theodorenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-32505283778495381042015-05-16T02:30:14.885-04:002015-05-16T02:30:14.885-04:00But modern US-style adoption is not a sound base f...But modern US-style adoption is not a sound base for a honest relationship. If Liz is not doing everything to make sure that the person she adopted is free to reject the relationship Liz forced on her, a relationship her manipulations created, by honestly pointing out all fouls on her own side, I cannot see that relationship as honest at all. How can somebody who forced a falsified birth certificate on somebody else be claimed to have an honest relationship with that person, without confessing amd apologizing the associated moral crimes to the victim? Theodorenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-2270713084767971672015-05-15T19:12:16.103-04:002015-05-15T19:12:16.103-04:00I also agree with what Mercer has said so well. Ma...I also agree with what Mercer has said so well. Manipulation has no place in an honest relationship. This is Liz and her daughter's real life, not a film or play. To suggest it be treated as such is just not right.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-69721119061786239402015-05-15T19:04:39.039-04:002015-05-15T19:04:39.039-04:00Julia:
That is an extremely sad story, both for y...Julia: <br />That is an extremely sad story, both for your mother and for you. You're right, there is no way to understand what it feels like for you. If it helps, though, as a birth mother, it sounds to me like she must have been in a desperate and bad way, especially being 35 and perhaps not as physically or mentally strong as a younger woman. A big strike against her from Mother Nature. From experience, I think that no mother who chooses to have her child adopted, has a very happy life. We can pretend to ourselves at times that we are happy, but there is always something very "wrong", something elemental that "missing" - and we are always sad, worried and panicky. It's such an unnatural separation.<br /><br />I realize my perspective is different than yours. I wish you the best and hope that at some point soon your state will allow access to your birth certificate. Your experience is such a good illustration of how adoptees truly have a right to know who their birth parents are, and what has become of them. I hope very much that you are able to contact your mother, or at least find out what her story was. Obviously, there was something bad going on. Not knowing I shouldn't speculate, but I feel so sorry for you. Being a birth mother, I also feel sorry for all mothers (including me) who lose their babies, no matter the circumstances. If you could find your mother, it would make me so happy.<br />new and oldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17362285131091164702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-58840176794740140912015-05-15T16:20:56.362-04:002015-05-15T16:20:56.362-04:00In my previous comment I should have said my first...In my previous comment I should have said my first mother LEFT me for strangers to raise. She did not give me to anyone, she left me in a facility and fled. And if one is not in this situation, one cannot understand what a fact like this does to a person. Julia Emilynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-88306905147042330852015-05-15T16:05:38.640-04:002015-05-15T16:05:38.640-04:00Thank you, Anon. I can not come to terms with the ...Thank you, Anon. I can not come to terms with the fact that I was given to complete strangers to raise. That my own mother, an adult 35 years of age, gave me away. You said it beautifully. Julia Emilynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-61115060117410209442015-05-15T14:18:53.150-04:002015-05-15T14:18:53.150-04:00No child can understand that their mother "lo...No child can understand that their mother "loves them very much" and yet gives them to someone else, or that she "very much wants to be with you" but is nowhere to be found. I don't know why some people find this hard to understand. Probably because there is no possible way for them to even begin to empathize with this concept unless their own mother had "loved them very much" and yet gave them to someone else. Children sort this stuff out better than you give them credit for. I did. <br />I am sure that this is the last thing some people want to hear but I am just speaking from my personal experience. Children, then the adults they become, figure this out slowly at each age-appropriate level and within the context of their own life experience. It is a lot to take in but it will more than likely change, perhaps quite drastically, over time. She may be horribly angry at times, she may be overwhelming sad at others, but she will find what works for her with the open support of the adults around her.<br />Theodore: I sincerely hope that no one takes your advice seriously. I personally find it highly offensive.. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-76776571949241652392015-05-15T12:00:08.817-04:002015-05-15T12:00:08.817-04:00Truth hurts. Manipulation can hurt more. Adoptees ...Truth hurts. Manipulation can hurt more. Adoptees tend to be hyperaware of both. I would trust that the teen in this case will make up her own mind about Ellen and form the connections that she feels comfortable making. <br /><br />Having a mother leave not once, but twice, could be devastating. I don't know: not my story. It may take time and maturity for this young woman to come to terms with Ellen's reasons for cutting off contact and decide to trust her again, and if she does not, that is fine, too. There is undoubtedly more to this than is being shared, as well.<br /><br />I would *absolutely* avoid manipulation. Adoption is a messy world to inhabit; there is no need to make it messier.Hannahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-68664991512211750662015-05-15T08:58:48.977-04:002015-05-15T08:58:48.977-04:00Do you have kids, Theodore? Manipulation is no way...Do you have kids, Theodore? Manipulation is no way to treat them or earn their respect. Acting has no place in parent-child dialogue, nor in any honest relationship.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-32527618218049322562015-05-15T06:10:14.526-04:002015-05-15T06:10:14.526-04:00Exactly what I thought, only not so coherently. Th...Exactly what I thought, only not so coherently. Thank you for expressing it so well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com