tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post5462230909077179659..comments2024-03-27T20:48:39.389-04:00Comments on [Birth Mother] First Mother Forum: Catelynn and Tyler's "semi-open" adoption closed!Lorraine Duskyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comBlogger70125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-41629229156205805442017-03-02T22:36:06.497-05:002017-03-02T22:36:06.497-05:00I was adopted before I was 2 couldn't hate the...I was adopted before I was 2 couldn't hate the system more I'm depressed being told my adoptive parents are my only family. But at 14 I found my birth family and connect with them better as they understand me and how I think and feel. I will never promote adoption yes I agree with permanent guardianship however I don't agree with changing a child's identity to fit in and help you accept a child. The government is cruel the world is cruel and as an adopted mixed child in an all white school I had to learn to stand alone.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15761803146024331142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-90446647753330313832016-11-18T11:38:02.707-05:002016-11-18T11:38:02.707-05:00Oh...I just cringe when I hear of an adoptee givin...Oh...I just cringe when I hear of an adoptee giving up a baby! To have to live with that double whammy...Yet it is obviously so common. I think it stems from two things: One, an inborn need to repeat history and understand one's mother better, thus a certain carelessness with birth control; and two, the adoptive parents are not invested in no having an adoptive grandchild that will in no way resemble them, or carry on the family line, and so...they not only put no effort in keeping the baby (bastard here fits), and in fact, encourage the adopted daughter to get rid of it. Life is cruel. We are only higher creatures with more brain power, but at bottom we are mammals and have the same instinct to preserve our own line, not anothers. <br /><br />As regular readers know, my daughter Jane could not let her first child's father keep the baby, as he wanted to. It was easier for her to live with absolving her of all responsibility than letting the father (and his mother) raise the child, as he wanted. Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-89331387505038961812016-11-18T04:49:08.183-05:002016-11-18T04:49:08.183-05:00The Teen Mom episode with Lori Wickelhaus (series ...The Teen Mom episode with Lori Wickelhaus (series 2 I think) was a horrible but crystal clear example of how vulnerable young dependent teens are to being manipulated. <br /><br />Lori wanted to keep her son. Her adoptive mother had a meltdown at the mere suggestion by Lori that she has a baby shower. Weeks later, after all hope is gradually stripped from a crying Lori, her son is adopted. What her aparents did was shocking and unforgiveable imo.cherrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-5253207846535952992016-11-15T15:59:29.193-05:002016-11-15T15:59:29.193-05:00I'm so sorry for the pain you've endured x...I'm so sorry for the pain you've endured x<br />cherrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-39211740534114893172016-11-12T18:03:01.472-05:002016-11-12T18:03:01.472-05:00Exactly. Exactly. Heartbrokennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-82019540940222017312016-11-12T18:02:04.096-05:002016-11-12T18:02:04.096-05:00My heart breaks for them. See this is what they do...My heart breaks for them. See this is what they do. They butter you up, use you, then throw you away once they get what they want. My daughter's adoptive parents did this to me. It hurts. I hope when my daughter is 18 she come finds me so I can tell her the truth. I hope this discourages adoption. Heartbrokennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-44063136782769978062016-11-07T20:31:50.895-05:002016-11-07T20:31:50.895-05:00Encourage, yes. However "shotgun" implie...Encourage, yes. However "shotgun" implies force and really only applies to minors or dependants. If the extended families of the expectant couple are seriously dysfunctional (addiction, abuse, etc) and one or both of the expectant parents wants to make a break from that, then family-forced marriage probably isn't going to be the best idea. So much depends on the circumstances surrounding the pregnancy.<br />JMOLisanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-73514819136935991562016-11-06T16:46:17.163-05:002016-11-06T16:46:17.163-05:00I saw many shotgun weddings when I was in college ...I saw many shotgun weddings when I was in college in the early 60's or, as people noted wryly, "the baby came early." Some of the marriages lasted and some din't. This was true of the non-shotgun marriages as well. <br /><br />However, couples were often discouraged from getting married "just because the girl was pregnant." Adults conjured up a parade of horribles, "You'll have to drop out of school, you'll end up single working in a dime store; he'll end up as a gas station attendant." Or "he'll miss being single, hanging out with his friends and he'll dump you." I have met natural mothers who followed this advice much to their regret. About 20 percent of the natural mothers I've met eventually married the father and had other children with him. This was true of the parents of Emily Hipschen who Lorraine mentioned in the post. Such a shame they lost their first child.<br /><br />The available of adoption gave cover to young men who likely would have married the mother rather than see her raise a child alone. This was the situation for Carol Schaefer ("The Other Mother") where the boy's father pushed him into not marrying Carol and having her give up the baby so the boy could finish college, have a career, etc. Then if they still wanted to marry, they could and start off right. Of course they could never start off right having lost their child. <br /><br />So yes, I would encourage couples to marry even if that is necessary to avert adoption even if the marriage will be shaky. Jane Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09715622112694146946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-76875214539638433022016-11-06T12:34:20.228-05:002016-11-06T12:34:20.228-05:00'So cold hearted. How did they get that way?&#...'So cold hearted. How did they get that way?'<br /><br />In a word, adoption.<br /><br />I think you have to put your heart in a tiny box somewhere to continue being able to live. If you don't, you...well, you end up how Catelynn is right now, self-harming with suicidal ideation. Cherryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07876862640326469175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-43836807163239534882016-11-06T10:57:36.875-05:002016-11-06T10:57:36.875-05:00Agreed. Feeling that you have nowhere to go or mea...Agreed. Feeling that you have nowhere to go or means to provide for yourself leads to stupid moves.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07202936951061435463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-77150396331704667512016-11-06T10:56:30.086-05:002016-11-06T10:56:30.086-05:00Uta, my mom very much wanted my father on the hook...Uta, my mom very much wanted my father on the hook, but they were both married and she could not take the risk of her husband finding out and taking my five other siblings from her. She placed me before her husband got home from Vietnam. <br /><br />I got knocked up in high school, got married, had an abortion and did not feel that I had anywhere to go or a way to support myself and stayed in a marriage I did not want. Got knocked up again by my husband, finally got the guts to leave and have not seen my only child for 20 years. <br /><br />A ring on my finger did nothing for me or my family. My sibs all had a better life than I did. I needed my real mom, and birth control, not adoption and marriage. <br /><br />Full story is here under To my siblings. http://adultadopteesupport.org/blog.html I am tanker-yanker. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07202936951061435463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-67814927233802886502016-11-06T10:29:47.671-05:002016-11-06T10:29:47.671-05:00Not all opinion agrees that MTV's "realit...Not all opinion agrees that MTV's "reality" (highly scripted, rehearsed and edited) series may have led to a decrease in teen pregnancy. A study by University of Arizona researcher Jennifer Stevens Aubrey presents a different perspective on the impact of these kinds of shows on teenagers. It seems to me that the way these shows are presented, people Are unable to recognize commodification when they see it. Maybe least of all the participants, who probably think it fair exchange (attention, $$$), at least at the outset. <br /><br />http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10810730.2013.872721<br />"This article examines the impact of a popular documentary series about teen pregnancy, MTV's 16 and Pregnant, on adolescent girls' pregnancy-related attitudes, beliefs, and behavioral intentions. The results suggest that girls who watched 16 and Pregnant, compared with a control group, reported a lower perception of their own risk for pregnancy and a greater perception that the benefits of teen pregnancy outweigh the risks."Lisanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-30325244357860286782016-11-06T09:40:36.546-05:002016-11-06T09:40:36.546-05:00I'm not sure if this couple would still be on ...I'm not sure if this couple would still be on the show if not for the adoption. They would not be that interesting.<br /><br />Society needs to change the way we treat the infertile. We think having a child will fix them. If not with medical intervention, than through infant adoption. <br /><br />We need to see infertility as a medical issue. Infertile women need extensive counseling, to come to terms with what life has brought to them, and they need to leave mother nature alone! <br /><br />If the fertility treatments don't work, you grow a pair and deal with it. <br /><br />After all, we expect vulnerable women to deal with the grief of giving away their newborns. Why are infertile women above all that pain? sallynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-87975136608277008592016-11-06T09:11:21.115-05:002016-11-06T09:11:21.115-05:00"Seems to me the adoption industry - as well ..."Seems to me the adoption industry - as well as the abortion industry, while we're at it - conspire to ROB the FirstMother of her baby to let the bio dad off the hook."<br /><br />I do think that's an oversimplification, Utahagen.<br />I don't agree Catelynn would necessarily have been better off it she had married the father. Or that, even if she had, she would necessarily have been able to keep her child in the long term. <br />Or that abortion is invariably pushed by men who don't want the women they have impregnated to give birth to children they don't want to support. It's not always a diabolical plot. Sometimes women just don't want to be pregnant. And if they never wanted to become pregnant in the first place, then they deserve to have the right to decide whether or not to carry the pregnancy to term. If they do decide to give birth, from that point on they will have other decisions to make.<br />Lisanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-52232033060754257202016-11-06T08:29:03.164-05:002016-11-06T08:29:03.164-05:00Uta, you are making sense to me. One of the storie...Uta, you are making sense to me. One of the stories I tell in hole in my heart is that of a high school girl who became pregnant from her French teacher< I believe it was. While it was also statutory raape, her parents conspired with the police...and basically the guy got off the hook if he agreed to pay the expenses while the pregnant teen went away to a home. That was it. Everybody was concerned about his damn reputation. The woman initially contacted me through the blog, I put it in the book about the earlier era, and she contacted me again after she read it. I think it would be hard to ever forget the anger that would result--the teen woman's life was ruined--we know how the pain never truly leaves after you give up a child--but the man just went on with his wife and family and didn't lost his status, his job, his life. <br /><br />How the public has treated Tyler is more of the same old stuff. We've upbraided him here and gotten him quite angry as he reacted to a post of ours. Let me find it...<br /><a href="http://www.firstmotherforum.com/2012/11/issues-raised-by-tyler-and-catelynn.html" rel="nofollow">The Lost Post regarding the issues of Tyler and Catelynn, reconstructed</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.firstmotherforum.com/2015/04/catelynn-and-tyler-face-reality.html" rel="nofollow">catelynn-and-tyler-face-reality</a> <br /><br /><a href="http://www.firstmotherforum.com/2015/04/tyler-baltierras-adoption-regrets.html" rel="nofollow">Tyler Baltierra's adoption regrets</a><br /><br />There are a few other posts. The pictures of Brandon and Teresa have disappeared from the post as they must have pulled the original images. That's how you help close an adoption...Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-28559862741251585092016-11-06T07:49:08.993-05:002016-11-06T07:49:08.993-05:00How would a ring on their finger have materially c...How would a ring on their finger have materially changed their circumstances? They still would've been living in psychologically horrendous circumstances - something I am sure they wanted to save their daughter from. That was certainly in the mix for me - I did not want my son to suffer what I had done within my family home, yet I didn't feel old enough to leave. I think a supportive living environment would've really made the difference, rather than a wedding ceremony.cherrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-90711348305309573702016-11-05T23:22:52.488-04:002016-11-05T23:22:52.488-04:00From this (first) mother's point of view, it w...From this (first) mother's point of view, it was to get a baby for (fill in the blank couple that wanted one) the ob/gyn doctor and his wife, or the high school counselor and her husband, or for the neighbor couple that lived next door to where I went to stay after the loss of my baby, or the numerous other couples that seemed to come out of nowhere that had adopted a newborn male infant. It was also to spend as little as possible on this new human being and his mother. It had little, if anything, to do with getting 'bio dad off the hook'. Cindynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-26548378064693040482016-11-05T22:10:36.907-04:002016-11-05T22:10:36.907-04:00Cherry, New and Old, and Lisa, thank you for your ...Cherry, New and Old, and Lisa, thank you for your response. To all others...some food for thought: watching what Catelynn has gone through has reinforced an idea I've had for a long time. I understand why FirstMothers have ambivalent-to-negative feelings about adoption. I understand also why abortion is so controversial (for everyone). I assert that shotgun weddings, while not always the solution to an unplanned pregnancy, DO make sense for the pregnant woman in a large minority of case, Catelynne's being one of them. I'm sure there are many stories about shotgun weddings that should never have happened, but could it really be the case, as it is currently, that they almost should NEVER happen? For example, in the case of Tyler and Catelynn, why was everyone so adamant that they should not get married when she got pregnant, yet the same people thought it made sense for them to essentially remain a romantic couple, semi-live together, and eventually have a second child, all while keeping up contact with the child they had given up for adoption? There is no doubt in my mind that Catelynne would have been better off if she and Tyler had married and they had kept their child. As for that child -- and I am a mother by adoption, so I am not "anti-adoption" -- it is too soon to decree that she is necessarily better off for having been given up for adoption. As for Tyler...enough about Tyler. His life would have been pretty much the same, either way, and I am sick of his selfishness. As recently as a few weeks ago, his attitude was, "If I keep telling my story publicly, and my daughter's adoptive parents cut me off from her, it won't be my fault." This is the person whose feelings are paramount here? Anyway, as I've posted before, I understand FirstMothers' anger at adoption agencies and adoptive parents, but I think it behooves them to turn their attention (and anger) to the biofathers and all the people who put the bifathers' needs ahead of the biomothers'. Shotgun weddings often DO work out, and even of they end in divorce, the mothers don't end up forever cut off from their children. Seems to me the adoption industry -- as well as the abortion industry, while we're at it -- conspire to ROB the FirstMother of her baby to let the biodad off the hook.utahagenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15477745027202841793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-40185483203501683302016-11-05T12:45:15.676-04:002016-11-05T12:45:15.676-04:00I agree, Tyler has not acted in a very mature way....I agree, Tyler has not acted in a very mature way. It is not admirable to fight over Facebook posts, but since he is a public figure, it's hard to tell whether his actions might be the same if they were not famous. To his credit, he seems to care about his child, Carly and it's great that he and Caitlyn have stayed together. <br /><br />It seems that in an open adoption, you are not in a position to tell the aparents how it is going to be. They will be telling you, how it is going to be, and it's very important not to make them feel threatened or create any bad will. Your feelings have to be subservient to the feelings of the aparents. Not an ideal situation from the start, and it's unrealistic to expect anything else, isn't it? I imaging C&T's story will be a cautionary tale for other young couples, I hope so. They were not able to look into the future (as are none of us), to see that things may not go as promised, as planned, and your natural emotional instincts as a birth parent will take over (feelings of deep loss), like it or not.<br /><br />I wonder if there's more going on with the aparents than we know in the public arena. They do have the right to insist that Carly have her privacy, and not be part of a media event. And I'm bothered by Caitlin's "Driving high" activity; the aparents may not want that to be part of a child's life. Not being judgmental, just saying it might be part of the equation. Perhaps they will soften their view, given some time. But it's impossible to tell, since the television show and public exposure - and gossip - are such a major player in the lives of all of them. new and oldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17362285131091164702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-90822171395059882016-11-05T12:34:57.731-04:002016-11-05T12:34:57.731-04:00I agree with the above replies. 2 young kids, take...I agree with the above replies. 2 young kids, taken in by promises of something that sounds too good to be true - naive and impressionable. They thought they were doing something good, as that's what they were told, and drank the Kool-Aid, as they say. Plus the lure of having their experience documented and all the fame that goes with it. Now they are "stuck" in the position of having to prove their decision was right, their judgment was correct. Very sad.new and oldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17362285131091164702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-16738500775641368762016-11-05T11:15:06.426-04:002016-11-05T11:15:06.426-04:00Maybe not that good but better than the US where t...Maybe not that good but better than the US where the conversation is not happening except among international adoptees who, critics label, as maladjusted and ungrateful. Jane Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09715622112694146946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-43733705837109138182016-11-05T08:28:19.218-04:002016-11-05T08:28:19.218-04:00"Why is this?" Utagagen, it beats me too..."Why is this?" Utagagen, it beats me too. I think reality shows are almost always exploitive in one way or another. They distort reality, not represent it, and too often seem to mess up the participants even more than they were messed up before.<br />After reading this post I did a bit of googling and from what I discovered it seems that you are right about Tyler. <br /><br />As far as "forgiveness" goes, society as a whole has always given greater latitude to men, including when it comes to being a parent. Not that there aren't decent guys who want to be good fathers to their kids, and who sometimes get shafted by skanky agencies and birth mothers.<br />Lisanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-21478289004791595942016-11-05T07:57:22.222-04:002016-11-05T07:57:22.222-04:00Not that good, it is just the answer the ADVISORY ...Not that good, it is just the answer the ADVISORY branch gave to the question: "What kind of (international) adoption system should we have in the future?" The answer: "None". Adoption from China should be stopped immediately as we cannot be certain that the rights of the adoptee have not been violated, and from the USA because we can be sure that at least one of the rights of the kid has been violated (such as the right to have both mother and father COMPLETELY informed before they agrees with (relinquishment and) adoption, or the right to have international adoption only considered if the child cannot be placed in foster or adoptive family in country of origin). That goes back to the non-ratification by the United States of America of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. Even the Vatican is part to that, and even Gibraltar is in full compliance (whether technically still an exception or not), so some actions which are legal in the United States of America, including selling adoption with the lure of "open adoption", should be considered violations of the child's rights. We do have to take into account that the council, in accordance with Article 3 of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, did not consider the rights of original mothers or would-be adopters. <br />It is just advice on what to do in the future, it has no legal power, but it is more or less the stand the legal branch of child protection has taken on the issue what should be done, and as such it is a great discussion opener. One could see it as the baseball bat, thrown by a drunk (merely from happiness, if you wish) Cubs fan into the Adoption hen house, it causes commotion, but it is no guarantee that anything more will happen.<br /><br />As good news I would rather consider the most recent from "year to year change in number of international adoptions to the Netherlands"-10 year series: -31%, -4%, -2%, -11%, +3%, -25%, -8%, -17%, -11%, -17%... Theodorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14634057445114838262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-48991242444091167232016-11-05T07:00:02.859-04:002016-11-05T07:00:02.859-04:00....also, Chelsea and Maci come from families with.......also, Chelsea and Maci come from families with more security, both financially and socially: their parents' houses are large, the parents themselves are in long-term marriages (not approving or disapproving, just noticing).<br /><br />Catelynn and Tyler came from poor and chaotic backgrounds, with no security of any kind available. Perfect adoption industry fodder. Vulnerable young parents from the start.Cherryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07876862640326469175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-52042519239440132462016-11-05T06:56:02.851-04:002016-11-05T06:56:02.851-04:00I've noticed this too. But I've noticed it...I've noticed this too. But I've noticed it much more widely in the adoption world - fathers seem much more readily forgiven than mothers, even if the father buggered off for decades and didn't even try to help.Cherryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07876862640326469175noreply@blogger.com