Comments on [Birth Mother,] First Mother Forum: Romney urges single woman to give up her baby--or ...

Something smells here. I can't help but think...

2012-02-07T18:59:33.483-05:00

Something smells here. I can't help but think back to the last election when Romney suddenly quit his campaign & put his support behind McCain. I still say there was something more to that. Now I know it's pure speculation but I wonder if there's more to this story that we're not getting. The way I read this, it doesn't sound like this is his "first rodeo." Wonder how many other women he threatened in this same manner? Maybe one he knew a bit closer perhaps??? Just some fat I'm chewing on...

Megan: Glad to know you were joshing us.

2012-01-17T15:57:03.854-05:00

Megan:

Glad to know you were joshing us.

Rather than backing down, Romney now claims he created 120,000 jobs

Although we're getting off the subject, I can&...

2012-01-16T22:36:16.640-05:00

Although we're getting off the subject, I can't resist pointing out that Romney's statements about job creation are just more lies. The Washington Post awarded him three Pinoccio's for his claim that he created 100,000 jobs while at Bain Capital. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/mitt-romney-and-100000-jobs-an-untenable-figure/2012/01/09/gIQAIoihmP_blog.html

Rather than backing down, Romney now claims he created 120,000 jobs.http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/16/debate-fact-check-romneys-120000-jobs/

"I don't see how it can be inferred from ...

2012-01-16T22:32:29.406-05:00

"I don't see how it can be inferred from Romney finding Ms. Hayes some odd jobs that this means he knows how to create jobs and get people back to work. This seems like a bit of a stretch..."

Of course. Congrats, Robin. You win the prize. You came closest to getting my sense of humor.

Are you kidding me by saying that the fact that Ro...

2012-01-16T20:33:22.766-05:00

Are you kidding me by saying that the fact that Romney found odd jobs for a single mother proves that he created jobs in America and that he is not a corporate raider?

Right.....

I don't give two hoots about what religion Romney is, but to say that he is a job creator based on that information is like saying that because a teenager once babysat she is competent to head up a national chain of day care centers.

This is the first time i have commented here but I couldn't let that stand as is.

I don't see how it can be inferred from Romney...

2012-01-16T16:35:20.063-05:00

I don't see how it can be inferred from Romney finding Ms. Hayes some odd jobs that this means he knows how to create jobs and get people back to work. This seems like a bit of a stretch that his experience with Ms. Hayes proves that he is the person to get the country out of the current recession.

Sadly, I have to believe that Romney did this. In...

2012-01-16T13:11:36.321-05:00

Sadly, I have to believe that Romney did this. In deference to those people that have grown up in the church, I too grew up Mormon. One thing I do know is that if a girl does not get married and is pregnant the pressure to "relinquish" is unrelenting.

I would like to think that those that have been in the church for years would be more open to the realities of others that aren't "mainstream" and "blessed by the elders"- which does indeed make a difference in how you are treated and perceived. My family were poor and my father wasn't a "good" Mormon. There was a point, when my father had gone to FL to work and get a new house for us, that the bishop and his "friends" encouraged my mother to "give" them three of her children. The older two and younger two were unsuitable for placing with another family. My sister and I lived with the Bishop and his wife because the wife wanted my little sister and she would not be parted from me. I remember this well since I was 8 yr old at the time. I also remember being locked in the bedroom at meal times and any other time when no one was around. My sister was only allowed to see me when I was "good."

So, do I believe he did that? Yes, without a doubt.

Sometimes messages are conveyed by body language a...

2012-01-16T10:28:29.688-05:00

Sometimes messages are conveyed by body language and facial expression not neccesarily in words. I do not know either Romney or Hayes but can totally relate to her situation. I can see how she may or may not have taken what he was or was not saying out of context.

As far as the job offers, were they offers of a substantial enough wage that she could support her family. If not then they really didn't have the intent of her being able to keep her child. Maybe just another way to intimidate her into giving her baby up?

No religion, not just Mormon but Catholic and most others as well should have a place in a mothers womb. If is wasn't for organized religion most of us would probably have never left are babies.

You have reported that Romney helped Hayes find od...

2012-01-16T00:01:30.653-05:00

You have reported that Romney helped Hayes find odd jobs with other members of the church. More support for the Romney campaign. He knows how to create jobs and put people to work. Hayes gives testimonial of this.

Here's a citation that reports Romney later denied he threatened excommunication
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/bishop-romney-pressured-single-mother-to-give-up-b

Reader Megan pointed out that the LDS Church does ...

2012-01-15T23:14:40.190-05:00

Reader Megan pointed out that the LDS Church does not excommunicate single mothers who keep their babies and Romney would have been aware of that.

I haven't heard of Romney denying that he told Peggy Hayes that she could be excommunicated for keeping her baby. that, however.

It's clear from his statements during this campaign that the truth means nothing to him. He will say anything to advance his agenda regardless of the accuracy is statment or that it contradicts what he said in previous statements.

And who are any of us to judge?

2012-01-15T11:44:53.512-05:00

And who are any of us to judge?

Quoting from an earlier post at FMF: "Last ...

2012-01-15T11:32:51.624-05:00

Quoting from an earlier post at FMF:

"Last summer when we wrote about LDS and adoption, we received an anonymous comment that stated:

'In 2009 the LDS Family Services office in Dallas, TX were informed of approx. 280 pregnant unwed mothers in the neighboring Mormon congregations. Only 11 placed their babies for adoption.'

"You know what's funny about that? Even assuming that all these women remained single when their babies were born, those numbers which the LDS office was trumpeting is approximately four times the national average of women in the U.S. who relinquish their children to adoption, which is fewer than one percent."

The blogs of Mormon birth mothers seem to revel in how Proud they are to have complied with the Church's, er, suggestions that single women not raise their children. Yes I am sure that there are single women who do resist the pressures within the influence of LDS and keep their babies.

I commend their strength.

Would "failing to give up a child" be considered a sin at all, if not a "grave" sin? Kinda like "venial" sin versus "mortal" in Catholicism?

According to the book’s authors, Romney would late...

2012-01-15T00:03:02.426-05:00

According to the book’s authors, Romney would later deny that he ever threatened excommunication, and a review of the LDS church guidelines shows that the church does not often excommunicate members in situations like this. As bishop, Romney didn’t have unilateral authority to excommunicate Hayes--that decision would have been made by a council of regional lay leaders after discussing the matter with her—and failing to give up a child for adoption is not considered a grave sin.

As a lifelong member of Romney's church, and with a father that was a Bishop and a Stake President, I can tell you that excommunication is not done in cases like Hayes'. Romney would have known that as a Bishop, so I can't imagine why he would threaten excommunication. It doesn't make sense.

Let me also clarify a point of Mormon doctrine. Excommunication is not seen as a ticket to hell. God has no process or plan designed to block the progression of any of His children. Excommunication is viewed as a part of the repentance process. It is the withdrawing of the baptismal and temple covenants, so that the member is no longer bound by them.

Excommunication is not like saying "You will not be saved. You will never see the face of God." Rather, it's more like giving someone a second chance. This very clearly taught in Sunday School classes and in church publications.

"One has to be a strong and brave woman to stand up against the pressures of the LDS strictures." Well, I don't know about that. In my 45 years as a Mormon I will say that I've seen a lot of people come and I've seen people go.

Sometimes it takes years for trauma to be realized...

2012-01-14T10:22:57.328-05:00

Sometimes it takes years for trauma to be realized. Not that I would want this pain put on anyone, but in my opinion mothers who are "grateful" just don't have a clue yet to what they have done. Some of them never will. Proud is the farthest from any feeling I have ever felt when it came to relinquishing my daughter.

As far as the Mormon church, I am not a big fan of any organized religion. I would hope that since this happened almost 30 years ago that things have begun to change.

Those who truly live a spiritual and meaning life don't need to be told by others what to do to be a caring, contributing member of the human race.

I was glad to see the article in VF was titled &qu...

2012-01-13T17:52:23.839-05:00

I was glad to see the article in VF was titled "The Dark Side of Mitt Romney".

" We have seen the "proud to be a birth mother" blogs run by Mormon women and frankly, we are appalled."

I was shocked to see how many birth mothers wrote comments saying how grateful they are to have had the experience of relinquishing a child. I cannot imagine how anyone could be "grateful" for having such an experience. As if they preferred to have given up a child than to never have had that experience at all. That really dumbfounded me. I can imagine feeling it was the only option or the right option at the time but feeling grateful?? I wonder how their relinquished children will feel about that.

There are many things in my life I am grateful for but I can't imagine being grateful for something I would consider a tragedy.

That's a relief to hear. Maybe the Church lead...

2012-01-13T16:38:55.002-05:00

That's a relief to hear. Maybe the Church leader will have a divine revelation regarding single mothers, as when it was revealed that blacks could be full members of the church. When was that? In the Seventies, I believe.

Actually there are A LOT of cafeteria Mormons. Th...

2012-01-13T15:11:21.356-05:00

Actually there are A LOT of cafeteria Mormons. There is a growing movement of New Order Mormons who are rejecting the culture and dogma of conservatism that pervades Mormonism.