tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post6008494740054278865..comments2024-03-14T17:59:30.786-04:00Comments on [Birth Mother] First Mother Forum: Powerful testimony for adoptee OBC access at NY hearingLorraine Duskyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-23812655069394096622014-02-06T09:46:04.171-05:002014-02-06T09:46:04.171-05:00Promises, Privacy, Confidentiality. The magic word...Promises, Privacy, Confidentiality. The magic words by which the future of adopted persons is governed.<br /> <br />When I contacted the mother of my first child forty six years later (about finding the son we gave up for adoption), she said "the lawyer told me that I would never be found". <br /> <br />That's a statement, not a promise. I think that most of these guarantees that are purported to create "a reasonable expectation of privacy" were just that, statements, not promises.<br /> <br />I find it unlikely that an experienced judge, unless they were not judges at the time as they lead us to believe, would make a hard and fast promise that he knew he had no control over. They can't enforce a personal guarantee against the rest of the populous.<br /> <br />Further, I can't feature a sitting judge, whose function is to ensure that the law is followed, making gratuitous personal statements to unknown women coming before him briefly to finalize a procedure. What could his stake in this be, that would cause him to go out on limb in this fashion?<br /> <br />My devious mind says that he is a buddy of the lawyer bringing the adoption before him, and that lawyer assists in the judge's political efforts, as apparently does this guy Aaron Britvan with all his memberships and coziness with the judiciary.RODnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-19746951574829832582014-02-04T16:03:41.879-05:002014-02-04T16:03:41.879-05:00Jessica--One of the women who spoke, somewhere aft...Jessica--One of the women who spoke, somewhere after the two hour mark, possibly right after me--found her mother through DNA. She did 23andMe and then turned over the results to some other company, as I recall, and her mother was there. She didn't believe it at first, but there she was. I'm going to go back and hear some of the testimony again.<br /><br />As for the judges who had to leave--of course they had to leave--they have more important things to do than listen to the heartache of sealed records and the truth of birth mothers. They will never listen to us. David Weprin is committed to our cause, as are some of the other legislators; it is immensely helpful that Joseph Borelli is adopted, and a Republican. As for those who are deep into believing the world will end and mothers will kill themselves if the birth certificates are unsealed, they will never change their minds. <br /><br />The historian Thomas Kuhn concluded almost 50 years ago that a scientific paradigm topples only when the last of its powerful adherents dies; it will be the same with unsealed records. But I believe we will be able to go around the opposition, just as the country is going around those who oppose gay marriage.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-45308498529807193142014-02-04T13:19:58.388-05:002014-02-04T13:19:58.388-05:00If it helps, I had a reunion at the end of last ye...If it helps, I had a reunion at the end of last year with my birth mother. You can contact me for the story. She had registered for identifying information with NYS - I did it as well by way of the agency, which is what the state recommends. No one ever contacted us, even though we were both registered sometime in the early 2000s. Unfortunately I have no proof and only have the letter they sent me with non-identifying information. I am lucky to have found her through DNA.<br />Who are these judges and lawyers giving testimony representing? Could we try and see what their motive is and then concentrate in that space? I am sure it has less to do with what they are saying than with some political motive. Try not to let it offend you so much. (I know it must be hard and I would have been right there with you!)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10857485181957832633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-90060503242019929522014-02-04T13:10:38.493-05:002014-02-04T13:10:38.493-05:00I would like to know why the judges said their pea...I would like to know why the judges said their peace and then did not stay to hear testimony of the other side. Who is making this decision? Them? And they do not stay to hear the testimony? When will the next hearing be. I will try to be there. I can share my story - which is one of reunion through DNA test if it helps. She registered and I registered through the agency but no one ever reached out to tell us the other had registered for identifying information. This was in the early 2000s. I am afraid I have no proof or documentation of this and neither does she because she was a Sandy victim. Thanks. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10857485181957832633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-57135076165907585372014-02-03T14:49:32.954-05:002014-02-03T14:49:32.954-05:00By the way Lorraine, do you know whether that talk...By the way Lorraine, do you know whether that talk about never seeing one's child again, has shocked anybody's conscience enough to keep? <br /><br />Theodorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14634057445114838262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-41040731448104804232014-02-03T07:25:30.670-05:002014-02-03T07:25:30.670-05:00Lorraine- I had to cut my previous post down in si...Lorraine- I had to cut my previous post down in size and cut out the section where I thanked you for attending and being a voice for us all! In addition to the surrender documents not guaranteeing my mom her privacy- nothing has been said about how agencies/attorneys have given adoptive parents IDENTIFYING information. Orders of adoption, names on documents. My husband is Candian born NY adoptee- he had his birthcard. My brother came from overseas- he had his original passport with his name. A promise of anonymity was as solid as the promise that our mothers would forget and live on as if nothing ever happened. Motherhood is neither private nor forgettable...it involves two parties- both of whom deserve their truth and voice. And the gov't has no place silencing either.Reneenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-14169543636578537662014-02-02T22:00:57.481-05:002014-02-02T22:00:57.481-05:00Renee, I added that bit about his two other childr...Renee, I added that bit about his two other children because there was absolutely no need to add that. <br /><br />And Renee, those documents prove that not only were first mothers not promised anonymity, we were the ones who were supposed to do the promising. Thanks for pointing that out. Samuels made that point at the hearing. <br />Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-77098509265924057532014-02-02T21:06:58.631-05:002014-02-02T21:06:58.631-05:00As an adoptee in reunion for over 21 yrs and in po...As an adoptee in reunion for over 21 yrs and in possession of my mother's surrender documents from NYC- I can unequivocally state that my mother was neither guaranteed nor promised privacy nor anonymity. The paperwork detailed her LACK of rights to anything- stating she wouldn't interfere with my adopted life. I was returned by the first family I was placed with. Had I not been placed a second time and adopted, I would have retained my identity and legal access to my birth certificate. What anonymity would my mother have had then? Reneenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-5199219002632759492014-02-02T18:35:11.361-05:002014-02-02T18:35:11.361-05:00I've tried to get through this three times. E...I've tried to get through this three times. Every time, I get to "He added, that after he and his wife adopted, they were blessed with two natural children" and the urge to vomit is so incredibly strong that I have to just leave the site.<br /><br />I'm sure that must make his adopted daughter, the lawyer "just like him," feel so awesome. Whether he means it to come across this way or not, he immediately makes it seem like there is some sort of difference in our adopted children vs our biological children. What on earth did that even have to do with the topic at hand, anyway?! Just had to slide that in for some reason?? As an adoptive and biological mother, he makes me sick with that comment. Disgusted. Infuriated. <br /><br />I'm ashamed of my home state. I wish I could have been there. What nonsense they spouted! Once my daughters are older, I'm hoping to be able to travel a bit more easily without them to attend some of these. I am keeping an eye out for any such action in my state, CA, as I'm close to Sacramento and could participate. Hopefully, you will publish if you hear of anything in other states?<br /><br />I'll try again to get through this later. Maybe I'll just skip past this part. ;)Tiffanynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-76154322150725291672014-02-02T14:41:42.546-05:002014-02-02T14:41:42.546-05:00Alberta, Hi, Mary Anne Cohen here. I remember you ...Alberta, Hi, Mary Anne Cohen here. I remember you from years ago! Glad to hear you are doing ok. What a joke the laws in NY and NJ are, and how many corrupt politician's own self interest they serve! I think you may be old enough to get your own OBC:-)<br /><br />As to the OBC being owned by both the natural mother and adoptee, in the case of non-adopted people, at least in NJ, either parent named on the BC or the person named can get a copy at any time just by providing ID, but neither can prevent the other from getting a copy. So why can't natural mothers of adoptees get a copy of the OBC here? And why should they be able to prevent adoptees from getting a copy, even if it is co-owned? That is a real red herring; co-ownership does not imply veto power either way, just that only those named have a right to the OBC, not the general public.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-54138218238309749652014-02-02T12:35:22.601-05:002014-02-02T12:35:22.601-05:00Yes! Fiorella LaGuardia was very involved in the p...Yes! Fiorella LaGuardia was very involved in the passage of the legislation closing the records in 1935. You remind that that I can tell that story at the blog. Thanks. Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-9918244934214683082014-02-02T11:55:16.016-05:002014-02-02T11:55:16.016-05:00Thank you Lorraine for your powerful presentation....Thank you Lorraine for your powerful presentation. I really wanted to be there but circumstances here, in California, did not allow me the joy of joining you and the other triad members.<br />Had I been there, I would have shared the fact that my search revealed that the former Mayor LaGuardia was married to my birth mother's sister, Thea. I'll be 83 this month and still want my original birth certificate before my children sign my death certificate!! I believe that LaGuardia was instrumental in sealing adoption records retroactively. He and his second wife adopted my sister Jean. She was born in 1928 and died in her early thirties. <br />Again, thank you for your efforts. Peace!<br />Alberta Sorensenalberta sorensennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-14566402033637122402014-02-02T07:44:53.686-05:002014-02-02T07:44:53.686-05:00Thank you Lorraine for all you do. I watched the ...Thank you Lorraine for all you do. I watched the entire thing (six hours!) but my feed slowed down every so often and I'll need to revisit some of the testimony and questions when video gets uploaded.<br /><br />The idea that there is co-ownership of the BC is not a new red herring. The counter to that is I would be well within my rights to remove my name from the birth certificates of my non-adopted children - just for spite or if I would somehow be embarrassed to be their mother. The BC is not only a personal document; you need to present it to various agencies. If I were some society dame and my child were a serial killer...Gaye Tannenbaumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17792214233203816331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-12535925335273944532014-02-02T03:14:16.287-05:002014-02-02T03:14:16.287-05:00Lorraine: thank you for this summary.
I watched ...Lorraine: thank you for this summary. <br /><br />I watched the judge from Suffolk County and, if I had been sitting directly behind him as you were, I might have strangled him. His testimony about birth mothers was sickening, but even more so was his condescending attitude. If he used the term "adopted child" one more time I was going to jump out of my skin. And how easy it is for adoptees to get information, according to him. I'd like him to try.<br /><br />I am going to petition the court in Queens, NY ASAP. But, I have sent my requests for non-id information to the health department. Notarized all the forms, filled in what little info I have.....almost 2 years ago. Heard nothing. So I wrote back. And wrote back again. I got a couple of form letters but nothing more. And this judge has the nerve to say how the registry is in place so we adoptees can easily get information. <br /><br />I did not see the other 2 judges, but I saw a lot of the positive testimony from first mothers and adoptees, and I think I am a bit more hopeful than I ever was in the past. <br /><br />Thank you for updating us on all of this.Julia Emilynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-49613080266906773262014-02-01T22:16:25.105-05:002014-02-01T22:16:25.105-05:00Lorraine, Thanks for this very comprehensive repor...Lorraine, Thanks for this very comprehensive report on the hearing. I could only attend for part of it. I heard some of the sickening testimony of the surrogate judges and the confuzzling speech of Britvan. I think all of us did very well and I hope the committee takes what we said collectively to heart. Thank you for being there for us.Joe Sollnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-49047164922812893092014-02-01T21:37:46.870-05:002014-02-01T21:37:46.870-05:00Thank you for your comprehensive report. Mothers w...Thank you for your comprehensive report. Mothers were not given confidentiality nor promised secrecy. Mothers should have been informed the truth that adoption is a loss with extremely painful consequences. You wrote a good article.Carla Ruppnoreply@blogger.com