tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post7196680914853814639..comments2024-03-27T20:48:39.389-04:00Comments on [Birth Mother] First Mother Forum: What did this first mother do wrong now? Cont. Lorraine Duskyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-66449669886966039792014-05-05T01:09:03.241-04:002014-05-05T01:09:03.241-04:00To Anonymous 9:17
Ouch and I can understand how op...To Anonymous 9:17<br />Ouch and I can understand how open adoption wouldn't work in your situation. And it sounds like your kids really did need you, and my heart goes out to you, and their birth mother too for all her challenges. I really admire families that adopt from foster and know several in person who like you adopted children from situations where their parents were on drugs, in jail, and worse frankly. There is a place for adoption but the more I learn the more I think it should be a last resort as was previously mentioned.<br />(Adoptee's spouse here. )Jessica J.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-80591068850204731622014-05-05T01:04:45.807-04:002014-05-05T01:04:45.807-04:00To Julia Emily. Come check out www.DNAAdoption.com...To Julia Emily. Come check out www.DNAAdoption.com. It's not too late to find out at least something, and I have personally seen many people find their original /birth/natural families. People lie and keep secrets, but DNA does not lie.Jessica J.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-15886636666125718632014-05-04T09:17:23.749-04:002014-05-04T09:17:23.749-04:00Hi:
I have never posted to this forum before. Any...Hi:<br />I have never posted to this forum before. Anyway, I am an adoptive mom of 3. Two were my former foster children and one from Haiti. The two who were my foster kids share a First Mom and it was a closed adoption. I had info on her, but she had none on me. I found the First Mom on FB and sent her some pics around Christmas time. She answeren me back and insisted on calling my daughter by the name that she had given her. She also made reference to them being HER CHILDREN. She never had custody of our mutual daughter and named her Heaven at birth. I got her at age 2 days and changed her name when I adopted her a year later. These kids were taken from her because she was a crack addict/ prostitute. She has cleaned up her act and is now married with 2 more children. In my case, open adoption would not work. She has no respect for the fact that these kids have another family now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-35065195259402109302014-05-04T07:27:39.488-04:002014-05-04T07:27:39.488-04:00I know the posts are a continuing story, but lets ...I know the posts are a continuing story, but lets take the conversation over to the latest post: Part 4. Thanks everyone for complying.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-78140314445535479762014-05-04T03:21:46.959-04:002014-05-04T03:21:46.959-04:00Hi Cherry: The two other adoptees I mention here ...Hi Cherry: The two other adoptees I mention here live many states away. So, while we do understand each other, and we always were very close, we are limited to phone calls and email.<br /><br />It would be good to have someone to lean on!! My husband just does not get it. I have tried to get him to just look at the situation...but he simply can not see a problem with it. Aside from trying to get a passport, which to him is a very cut and dried thing, he doesn't get what is bothering me!<br /><br />But I have learned a HUGE amount here! Especially these last few days with Lorraine posting about her daughter's unusual behavior. <br /><br />Thanks for your concern!<br /><br />And yes....coming out of the fog is a weird and painful experience. I never thought this would happen to me. But I am glad I woke up, so to speak, because I am learning a lot.Julia Emilynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-78609572809354214462014-05-03T16:18:29.613-04:002014-05-03T16:18:29.613-04:00And yes, everybody is on edge because of Mother...And yes, everybody is on edge because of Mother's Day. It's impossible to avoid!Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-83736138369167632132014-05-03T16:17:45.460-04:002014-05-03T16:17:45.460-04:00Exiled daughter: You probably did nothing more th...Exiled daughter: You probably did nothing more than "use the wrong towels." By that I mean, having you around opens up the old wounds that have been buried for so so long, and your mother is probably coming undone. It happened to me at times. I wanted to run away and hide, but I didn't, I just came apart. I can think of times when I was irritated with things my daughter did when they were really so small that I should have just absorbed them. Eventually we got past that, but...as this story comes to an end, her retreats were triggered by ... other things.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-15304087313470021462014-05-03T08:33:34.224-04:002014-05-03T08:33:34.224-04:00Julia Emily, do you have anyone you can share all ...Julia Emily, do you have anyone you can share all this with? Who can support you? Someone you trust? Like your friend you mentioned recently?<br /><br />You are doing absolutely nothing wrong but it's always so good to have someone right by your side to say this to you whenever fear rises up. You know you have us on here, but someone right with you might be really reassurring. During early reunion I was virtually propped up by my husband and sister - they gave me the strength and reassurance that I didn't have myself then.<br /><br />It's unnerving how much of the outside world's stuff gets into us. You feeling that you couldn't even THINK about your first mother; me not believing I had the right to even THINK of myself as my son's mother. It's as if the outside world, with all its values and wonky ideas, sets up its architecture within us and we end up living with that inner landscape.<br /><br />I think it's so hugely liberating to start questioning that landscape, amending it, altering it, replacing it. I think that's what coming out of the fog is about, as hugely painful as that process is.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Cherrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-43286235805570657372014-05-03T08:16:46.852-04:002014-05-03T08:16:46.852-04:00@ Adoptee Jen:
The 'JUST SHUT UP' section...@ Adoptee Jen:<br /><br />The 'JUST SHUT UP' section is for all the posts that seem to be telling first mothers to just shut up. As yours did.<br /><br />These posts vary how they say it, but say it they do.<br /><br />They say we write about our lived experience too bitterly, not sweetly enough, not kindly enough, too self-centredly. They say we will only be listened to if we use this tone, or refrain from these phrases, or pay homage to that situation. Genuine pain is swept up and popped in the self-pity bin. <br /><br />All these look and feel very like 'Just shut up' to me. And I hope that first mothers here don't. I hope they keep recording how it was and how it felt, so that those who CAN hear the humanity behind it all understand more.<br /><br />I hope no first mother here feels shamed or shouted down or condescended to as they try and express something that has rarely been publicly expressed before, and that has hardly ever had a place to be, especially among understanding company.<br /><br />The 'JUST SHUT UP' section is for all the varied attempts - whether subtle or by sledgehammer - to make us, the first mothers, do just that. In this particular case, it was about us.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Cherrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-64145645680409823072014-05-03T03:47:28.519-04:002014-05-03T03:47:28.519-04:00In my own situation, as readers here already know,...In my own situation, as readers here already know, my first mother was treated by my adoptive parents as a "nothing." The girl had me, they got me, that was the end of it and my AP's still feel this way, to a degree that many consider extreme.<br /><br />Any kind of search or reunion was out of the question. And now, even if I hid it from my AP's, I think it's too late.<br /><br />It is very difficult to grow up under such circumstances. As soon as I would ask a question, I was told to change the subject. It got to the point where, even when I was alone with my thoughts about my first mother I quashed them, because the subject was so taboo.<br /><br />I am still trying to come to terms with it all. I got an ABC and some very vague non-id. I am waiting on my petition to (hopefully) open my records. This is more than I have ever done before. And, even though my AP's believe that "the girl" was worth nothing, I certainly don't believe so. <br /><br />I am trying. This is a mess that no human being should have to contend with. It is very difficult. Julia Emilynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-82445501250715398932014-05-02T22:57:25.729-04:002014-05-02T22:57:25.729-04:00I feel sorry for the adoptees that choose to see o...I feel sorry for the adoptees that choose to see our reality as a put down to them. They are adults and should be able to be more receptive to the communication of pain, without feeling guilty and accepting it as directed at them or blame laying.<br /><br />Adoption is a form of slavery - the courts give "title" to the child through adoption, the amended birth certificate is the documented proof of ownership. Now, this being said, that doesn't mean all adoptive parents are bad or evil. There are good and bad in every situation. <br /><br />So, for those adoptees that only see part of the conversation, I feel bad for them.<br /><br />Now, for others, I am sick and tired of them crying "wah wah, you are treating me like a baby" - then turning around and treating us like babies... After all, only children get shushed and corrected in their thinking.<br /><br />Lorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05815710859859029536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-70170753392050318732014-05-02T20:40:27.843-04:002014-05-02T20:40:27.843-04:00@Lorraine coming from the other side, I'm a da...@Lorraine coming from the other side, I'm a daughter who wonders what did I do wrong this time? It's been nothing but push/pull, hot/cold between my mother and I for years. Mostly cold. I wanted nothing more than to have a healthy, loving relationship with my mother, but for reasons I'll never quite understand, she didn't want that. I have done everything I know how to do, and I'm just not good enough for her. Her loss, but still it hurts deeply. She doesn't even know who I am. Not really. <br /><br />I think many of us are on edge because Mother's Day is just around the corner.<br /><br />Exiled daughterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-62608852547588793642014-05-02T18:23:46.504-04:002014-05-02T18:23:46.504-04:00Thank you for saying this, Lorraine. "And you...Thank you for saying this, Lorraine. "And you know what? I am fucking exhausted by this fractious and fragile relationship, exhausted trying to figure out how to react, tired of getting beaten up by something I could not fix." I deserve better and I decided, a while back, that it was best if I loved from a distance. I can't be or do what she wants me to be and do. Robin Westbrooknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-28642730605726412392014-05-02T18:20:18.891-04:002014-05-02T18:20:18.891-04:00Lorraine, I am so in this place. "And you kno...Lorraine, I am so in this place. "And you know what? I am fucking exhausted by this fractious and fragile relationship, exhausted trying to figure out how to react, tired of getting beaten up by something I could not fix." I am tired of being chastised for my politics, my personality....any thing that will serve to cover up what I am really being beaten up for...what I cannot go back and change. I'm getting old. I am dealing with issues that come with age. I am tired and I am through taking crap for being alive and not being who she wants me to be. I am worthy of respect and if I don't get it along with a bit of peace, I turn away and refuse to feel guilty for being relieved. Thank you for saying what so many of us feel in this situation.Robin Westbrooknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-5626162702652651952014-05-02T15:49:12.194-04:002014-05-02T15:49:12.194-04:00And...these "discussions" and misunderst...And...these "discussions" and misunderstandings are exactly how rifts develop between mothers and adult adoptees in the first place. <br /><br />I absolutely hear the pain of mothers, and respect that pain. <br /><br />I hear that some adoptees shut doors without communication. Whoever does that (mother, adoptee, friend, partner) is cruel. And IMO, wrong. <br /><br />I am an adoptee who is in the opposite position: like adoptomuss, I have a controlling mother who shuts off communication or says very cruel things when I do not meet her expectations. She has never able to articulate her feelings about what I have done, except to hurt me either directly or obliquely. I am simply wrong when I state my needs; I am ridiculed. I do want to talk things over, but a discussion cannot be one-sided. There is always some culpability to go around.<br /><br />Emotionally traumatized people belong to every segment of society. No group is immune. If you feel able to reach out to someone who has hurt you: do it. If you cannot, don't. The other person may love you very much but be incapable of reaching out at a particular moment. Yes, people can be cruel. Ask yourself who is worth fighting for, and then don't talk about how people have hurt you. If you love someone, you will set your boundaries and wait (or not). <br /><br />Adoption breaks apart families and relationships. I am one of those who does see it like slavery/indentured servitude. I served, still serve, against my will. I lost so much. The suffrage metaphor doesn't cover it for me.<br /><br />Not every adoptee will say they lost things to adoption. That is tragic from my standpoint, but their position may offer some peace to them. Maybe they hurt their mothers (or fathers) with reticence and indecision. I am sure some do; I have heard and read many stories of this.<br /><br />Not every mother is wonderfully eager to accept us, protect us, hold us close. Truth. But I still love my mother and am searching for ways to connect to her. Most of us are, and I see incredible amounts of like pain in my groups of adult adoptees.<br /><br />Life is short. <br /><br />Pain is not a competition. <br /><br />I think most of us just try to get through a day, saying, "What the hell happened?" on the other side. Conflict sucks. We can choose either to work on it or not. Not working on it has fallout, but you need equal partners to work.<br /><br />Yet Another Adult Adoptee<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-24674083817005175102014-05-02T13:56:37.799-04:002014-05-02T13:56:37.799-04:00Cherry,
You're talking to adoptees. The ONLY ...Cherry, <br />You're talking to adoptees. The ONLY party in adoption that didn't have a say, and rarely gets a voice. And you want us to "Just Shut Up"? <br /><br />For women who claim to love their "lost" children so much, it seems you all don't really want to hear what we have to say. <br /><br />We're speaking to you as if you're five, because that's the way I see so many first/birth mothers behave (it's all about them). Frankly, it's not the entitled adoptive parents that bothers me. It's the "oh poor me" attitude of first/birth mothers that frustrates me to the point of giving up trying to communicate at all. Adoptee Jennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-52668865442118396152014-05-02T11:53:35.591-04:002014-05-02T11:53:35.591-04:00'...If you want people to listen and take you ...<br />'...If you want people to listen and take you seriously...'<br /><br />Hmmmm....such a LOT of people telling us how we should talk.<br /><br />In a tone that suggests we are five.<br /><br />Just the comments section here is quite an education.<br /><br />Lorraine, have you thought of doing a section on this blog called 'JUST SHUT UP'. Then all these comments, with their varied versions of this sentiment, could be put in there? Like a kind of quarantine.Cherrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-33019911150874217872014-05-02T11:49:27.452-04:002014-05-02T11:49:27.452-04:00Anonymous adoptee who is quite pissed off:
I firs...Anonymous adoptee who is quite pissed off:<br /><br />I first made an intemperate comment to respond to your condescending closure--and apparently you won't see this comment--but in the next post or two I do touch upon exactly what you talk about--mothers not taking responsibility for their actions, or being sorry for what happened, no matter the situation. However, I do not think you are understanding the incredible deep and prevailing mood of the culture that pointed only to one choice with an out-of-wedlock pregnancy. Pretty much it was adoption or you might as well kill yourself. I certainly thought about suicide a great deal during my period of hiding in the months before my daughter was born. Suicide seemed like a better option than facing the shame and/or giving her up. Somehow, I got through those months of confinement and she was born.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-88829757958974475872014-05-02T11:12:20.306-04:002014-05-02T11:12:20.306-04:00Lofty. Condescending. Correcting.
I won't be ...<br />Lofty. Condescending. Correcting.<br /><br />I won't be sad to see these elements disappear from the discourse here, so that the usual brave, honest, sensitive conversations can continue.<br /><br />Please do go away if you don't like it here. The blogsphere is enormous, why come here expecting us to bend our truth to ensure it is agreeable to you?<br /><br /><br />And this? Wow: <br /><br />'In a more broad sense, I have found that this site is largely filled with hate fueled name calling and rancor. Sadly, so many of you here seem mired in your own self pity and are desperate for a scapegoat from your own mistakes........I agree that trying to avoid overreaching generalizations and judging would go a long way towards healthy and meaningful discourse'<br /><br />Can you see it? The absurdity of this? It actually made me laugh (with contempt of course, just to be clear).<br /><br /> Cherrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-76246543381021667672014-05-02T11:09:45.335-04:002014-05-02T11:09:45.335-04:00I started reading here when I started reunion with...I started reading here when I started reunion with my birth mother, about two years ago. I don't comment. I just read. But I do have to agree with the other adult adoptees: this isn't a place for learning or understanding. This is a place where everyone else gets blamed, not birth parents. You blame agencies. You blame government. You blame APs. You blame religion. You blame overbearing parents. You blame society. You blame laws and societal mores. Can you please stop blaming people? We get it, it wasn't the ideal situation. You were trapped, scared, lost, and had no support. But, I had a really great upbringing. My parents were loving and fun. They didn't lie to me about the adoption, but kept all the information they had. They encouraged and helped me search. So, by you blaming people like them, I'm a bit skeptical of your motives. I've seen commenters and posters blast APs who dare to comment or suggest that adoption is a good thing. <br /><br />So, please, stop with the modifying phrases and the weasel words. If you want people to listen and take you seriously, try honey instead of rancid vinegar.AdopteeGailnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-43672851591291895352014-05-02T10:35:57.566-04:002014-05-02T10:35:57.566-04:00Slavery took away the rights of the individual to ...Slavery took away the rights of the individual to themselves, basically, without any input from the slaves themselves; the government controlled them, had laws that supported the slave owners "ownership." Of course the differences are great, adoptive parents care for and under normal circumstances love their children. But it was a government-sponsored and approved system that allowed for it. <br /><br />The same is true of the identities of adoptees in closed adoptions. Yes, many younger adoptive parents are not from the closed era and have more progressive ideas. But there are many who echo the feelings of an adoptive grandparent who once said to me--about two years ago, his son has adopted two children from Siberia--"Your are our worst nightmare." His son wrote a book that unequivocally states he and and his went to Russia to adopt to avoid "have to save a place for the birth mother at the dance recital." They are part of the younger adoptive parents set. I doubt their children are out of elementary school yet.<br />Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-90923331098386392702014-05-02T10:05:55.776-04:002014-05-02T10:05:55.776-04:00Lorraine, you said "To be clear, I do not com...Lorraine, you said "To be clear, I do not compare adoptive parents to slave owners. However--if adoptive parents spoke out more about the damage of sealed records, they would open more quickly."<br />You also said "If slave owners had spoken out against slavery, and set their slaves free, slavery would have ended sooner. The same would be true about ending sealed records."<br /><br />There's a comparison right there. Drawing attention to a similarity is making a comparison even if it is indirect.<br />I can see why some African Americans and adoptive parents would find that offensive. If the issue is the timeline, how about using the women's suffrage movement instead?<br /><br />Just Another MotherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-16204729366834481582014-05-02T08:22:03.579-04:002014-05-02T08:22:03.579-04:00I am yet another adult adoptee and I have to say I...I am yet another adult adoptee and I have to say I agree with what the other anonymous adoptees have said and said much more eloquently than I could. Making generalized comments about any group does not encourage open dialogue, but I do understand this is a group for birthmothers so this will be my only comment before I take my marbles elsewhere too. <br /><br />I do appreciate what Lorraine and other birthmothers have done to advocate for open records. I have to wonder though if adoptive parents are the main obstacles to open records at this time. Adoption has changed so much from the days of no information given or received on either side. Many if not most younger adoptees now have the names and other information but still have their original birth certificates locked away which hardly makes sense. The older adoptees like myself where no information was ever exchanged are now entering retirement or pre-retirement age with a much lesser likelihood of having living parents, either adoptive or biological, so who is being protected there. Even with living parents how many would be that motivated to try to keep their middle aged "children" from their original birth certificates. I suspect the agencies and lawyers are more motivated at this point to keep their records sealed for whatever reason but I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time. <br /><br />Wishing you all a good day.<br /><br />Yet another anonymous adopteeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-20054227497105075932014-05-02T06:50:22.250-04:002014-05-02T06:50:22.250-04:00I LOVE this blog :-)
Thank you a million times fo...I LOVE this blog :-)<br /><br />Thank you a million times for it xCherrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-646365077107352992014-05-01T22:33:46.793-04:002014-05-01T22:33:46.793-04:00Well, okay then,
I actually came here on a tip fr...Well, okay then,<br /><br />I actually came here on a tip from another Adult Adoptee; of course Adoption is a part of my life and I was eager to peek in and glean insights along the way.<br /><br />Apparently open discourse is only encouraged for First Mothers. I get it; it IS your site. No hard feelings and as suggested, I won't be back.<br /><br />For the record, I have been reading along for quite some time and only just commented on this post. If that's trolling okay....but I have not been attacking folks on Facebook???<br /><br /> As an African American, drawing parallels to slavery was extremely distasteful to me. I appreciate the clarification though I do believe that use of that analogy was deliberate and in part, for shock value. It cheapens the history of all those enslaved by a nation and those who sacrificed all for its abolition. I think that's hard to recognize if you are not black.<br /><br />In a more broad sense, I have found that this site is largely filled with hate fueled name calling and rancor. Sadly, so many of you here seem mired in your own self pity and are desperate for a scapegoat from your own mistakes.<br /><br />I get that too; it's tempting to want to rewrite history to make ourselves look better during challenging times.<br /><br />I love what Suggestion and a few other posters shared; I agree that trying to avoid overreaching generalizations and judging would go a long way towards healthy and meaningful discourse and maybe that elusive change you all want.<br /><br />I thought that was the point but I was wrong.<br /><br />So yes, I will leave you all to yourselves and encourage others: Adoptees and Adoptive Parents to run for the hills.<br /><br />Honestly, I see the pain here but just question what ever is resolved except finger pointing and blaming? Sadly, the really good stuff shared on here gets lost in the translation of hatred and bitterness.<br /><br />Thanks for letting me have my say. May you all find a measure of peace one day.<br /><br />Adult AdopteeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com