tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post7361004152874478964..comments2024-03-27T20:48:39.389-04:00Comments on [Birth Mother] First Mother Forum: Should a natural mother be able to visit a child after adoption? Lorraine Duskyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-82056414063454143362015-03-11T13:59:14.087-04:002015-03-11T13:59:14.087-04:00I've been reading a bit about Parental Alienat...I've been reading a bit about Parental Alienation and there seems to be a groundswell movement to clarify civil and even at times criminal laws in reaction to the many divorces in which various degrees of parental alienation occur... isn't closed adoption the most fundamental form of parental alienation? Does anyone know more about this and how it has been used legally?Kaisanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-15650630626261473762015-03-05T08:25:48.870-05:002015-03-05T08:25:48.870-05:00Jana, I have great respect for you speaking from a...Jana, I have great respect for you speaking from and about your personal experiences with in-family guardianship and little stability while growing up. Any childcare arrangement, adoption, guardianship, foster care, needs to be first and foremost about the needs and comfort level of the child, not the adults involved. Child welfare issues cannot really be equitable for all involved for the reasons you state, the needs of a child during childhood are different than the needs and wants of adults and should come first. Guardianship should be one option for some children in need of care, but not all, and in-family placement is not always ideal either. No, adoption and childcare issues are not simplistic at all, that is why there is so much controversy, and every situation is unique.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-66263340390352014452015-03-04T20:19:15.670-05:002015-03-04T20:19:15.670-05:00Jana, I believe you're right, any 'fix'...Jana, I believe you're right, any 'fix', would likely need to be individualized. I do understand that children need stability and I also agree that any solution needs to accommodate the WHOLE adopted child (or rather the whole adoptee - as they are not forever children (~_~). The place to care for the WHOLE adoptee, as is the same for all children, is in childhood. <br /><br />I'm sorry it came across that I was saying ''once ---adults---, adoptees could choose their own course free of coercion, deciding on names....'' What I actually said was, 'at such time as the child is able to make the choice for themselves.. I was referring to an actual child. Not an adult.<br /><br />Jana you said, "I can't imagine that many parents who do surrender in the circumstances you describe in your final paragraph would simply 'walk away and never give it another thought'." <br />Maybe I should have made another paragraph for clarity. The only thing in that sentence that I related to a parent walking away and never giving it another thought was --If parents truly didn't want their children--. That is all.<br /><br />I wanted to be 'good enough to be wanted' as a child too. After my mother died (I turned seven 4 days later) and my dad remarried, I felt resented instead, like an unwelcome guest, a servant girl... and could never do anything to be "good enough"...or so it seemed. I was grieving, we all were... and none of us new -how- nor did we recognize one another's grief. I understand the feeling of wanting to be wanted, cherished, loved and to belong. I get it. <br /><br />I appreciate your thoughts and feelings about this. They are yours, they are real, they are valid. My thoughts and feelings on this do not make yours wrong or invalid. <br /><br />Re the definition: I always look up words that are directed to me to get a greater clarity and to see if and how they are valid so that I can, hopefully, make a course correction or at least be aware of something to 'work on'. I do that when I get called names even... sometimes it helps to 'open my eyes'. I wrote the definition out, due to my next comment about adoption being similarly situated (only my opinion of course) and to show *where* or *how* I saw the connection. It was not meant to belittle you in any way. As it did come across that way to you, I'm sorry<br /><br />I do suppose I do have a vested interest in the ''benefitting of natural parents'', being as I am one...I'm also a second generation 'adoptee', so I have lived with the results of adoption. <br /><br />I would, *strictly from my point of view of course*, love to see adoption changed drastically and in many cases eliminated. Obviously, I base it on ---my--- experiences, thoughts and feelings as you base yours on the same. I respect that.Cindy Aulabaughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-40160309082563706672015-03-04T16:06:13.715-05:002015-03-04T16:06:13.715-05:00I can't imagine that many parents who do surre...I can't imagine that many parents who do surrender in the circumstances you describe in your final paragraph would simply ¨walk away and never give it another thought.¨ That seems opposite of the main essence of this very blog. My own Nmother could not bring herself to just ¨walk away¨ or at least not for many years, though clearly she didn't wish to parent. My very upbringing serves to highlight this point. I could point to her as being that very ¨greedy"and selfish¨ parent for her refusal to either parent me or terminate her rights in a timely way. She wanted it all ways and all ways pointed to her self serving motives. Maybe there is a definition for that too?<br /><br />At any rate @ Cindy A., I shared my own experience in what you described as Guardianship and can attest that for me, it was not a workable solution or one I would wish for any child. My experiences don't summarize all such nuances involved in what you propose but they do perhaps highlight that adoption is not likely ¨fixed¨ easily and as it stands, with adoption servicing individuals as vaired as the next, any ¨fix¨ would likely need to be individualized as well. IMO<br /><br />Finally, please consider that like life, an adoptee is not static. Your assertions that once adults, adoptees could choose their own course free of corercion, deciding on names, family affiliations, etc. - all of that sounds fine except it doesn't take into account the child adoptee who might yearn or be desperate for that one family to call their own. It just doesn't. It doesn't consider feelings of loyalty to the family they were raised in and how heart wrenching a decision that would be to make, regardless of unbiased counsel or othwerwise.Children in those situations or Foster Care believe intuitively that if they were truly good enough or desirable enough, they would be adopted into a forever home. That's just kids or many kids for you. Will they one day grow and feel differently? Perhaps. But any solution needs to accomodate the WHOLE adopted child not just the adult adoptee. Because in between counts too. Adults looking back see things with great clarity - children just want to be like their peers. <br /><br />It seems in part, to me anyways, that your solution mostly benefits the natural parent(s) first and foremost. That's just how I see it. <br /><br />Finally, thank you for the definition of ¨simplistic¨ - it actually felt slightly patronizing and just highlights that oftentimes adoptees are seen as perpetual ¨children¨, never quite knowing what is best for themselves or quite trustworthy enough to outline their own experiences. That may not have been your intent, but it came across in that way. <br />Jananoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-67171212723135608962015-03-04T06:54:41.158-05:002015-03-04T06:54:41.158-05:00Jana, thank you for making such excellent points, ...Jana, thank you for making such excellent points, especially about the need for stability and that visits should be based on the comfort levels of the child.Lisanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-17275369605951511802015-03-04T03:13:08.064-05:002015-03-04T03:13:08.064-05:00Hi Jana, The definition of simplism: The act or an...Hi Jana, The definition of simplism: The act or an instance of oversimplifying; esp: the reduction of a problem to a false simplicity by ignoring complicating factors -- simplistic adj. simplistically adv. <br /><br />For starters I could counter that adoption is simplistic. As it certainly ignores (many) complicating factors. The wants, needs and feelings of a good many human beings for one. Closed records for another. Coercion, human trafficking, open adoptions being closed. The lifelong issues and struggles it creates for so many. The list is long.<br /><br />The 'guardianship' I was referring to, is a familial relationship with -one- family. Not as in the foster care system. Your life growing up, although called a guardianship, it was implemented in the manner of foster care except your mother was the one who moved you around instead of the state/agency. No stability. No permanence of family - belonging. Yes, that is hard.<br /><br />I would like to see guardianship, established with **one** family from the start, to be --the-- family with all rights, privileges and responsibilities. The laws can be set up in such a fashion as they have been for adoption. The name of the family can and should be hyphenated with the child's original name. The family can use which name they choose (for their benefit and the child's) and the child has the option to use which name/s they care to as they get older. If the child has been permanently removed for irresolvable safety issues/or had been freely surrendered and no complications with coercion, etc. are raised, that at such time as the child is able to make the 'choice' for themselves (the child being fully informed as to the future issues of such a decision in regard to the aspects of adoptions closed records) they be given the right to agree to an adoption or can continue guardianship. I see this as being able to do away with the foster care (bounce me around) system as well. Stabilization for EVERY child that is unable to live with or is surrendered by their natural families. While providing greater protection for mothers/fathers who want their children and have been coerced, forced, or taken advantage of in any way to 'surrender' their child. Also for those who want to be involved in their child's life... but have been shut out due to open adoptions being closed by the adoptive parents. There are too many ''injustices'' in -the systems- form of adoption. There is a way to work this out to were it is *****equitable***** for everyone involved. The system as we know has many deficiencies that need to be changed and all those that the current system affects, perhaps even the children who are currently in foster care and those who are young adoptees-- need to be involved in finding a more equitable and loving solution. <br /><br />Jana I'm sorry you had such a difficult and I wouldn't wonder often times sad childhood. Sorry your natural father died before you knew him or he you. <br /><br />I realize there are as many possible outcomes and situations in life as there are human beings. Do I have this guardianship thing all ironed out? No. Do I want to see things equitable for everyone? Yes. Do I have the answers for that? No. Am I being simplistic ... a dreamer. Yes, perhaps you're right. <br /><br /> I feel that with the 'you are our child and *only* our child for forever into eternity' (by the act of adoption) attitude, even legalizing visitation in open adoptions is not going to change that mindset or the difficulties it creates. Nor is it going to fix the difficulties of nmother/father here and then gone again and a distressed child and the adoptive parents wanting to close the adoption through the courts. It would leave some feeling boxed into a corner and that can be detrimental to the child. Fix the core problems and this won't be an issue. Treat the cause, not the effects. If parents truly didn't want their children, they would surrender to adoption, walk away and never give it another thought... somethin' is wonky with the system.Cindy Aulabaughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-60535760061344454862015-03-03T18:50:06.759-05:002015-03-03T18:50:06.759-05:00@Cindy A.
Not the simplistic solution you might i...@Cindy A.<br /><br />Not the simplistic solution you might imagine. I was a child brought up by extended family and bandied about based on the whims of my natural Mother. There were times when it suited her quite nicely to be a Mom, but sadly many more where having a child did not allow her enough personal freedoms or flexibility. Raised by relatives, some of whom were openly disdainful of my Mom's choices and others who had no interest in actually parenting me, short of accepting the financial support I came with in the form of a Social Security check. ( My natural father died when I was an infant.) <br /><br />Guardianship didn't solve my problems and I too was plagued with feelings of abandonment, compounded by her occasional visits and even longer periods of absence. In fact the only thing it did secure me was absolutely NO TIES to any one family. My natural Mother eventually terminated her parental rights and I spent time both with outside family and in Foster Care. I longed to be adopted into ONE family; to be legally bound to another - to be good enough to be WANTED by one family, even a so-called possessive adoptive family. <br /><br />In fact......for many of us who bounced about, a possessive parent doesn't sound quite so bad. I guess its all in the eye of the beholder and such. I also know many parents who would qualify as ¨jealous and possessive¨ parents who are not adoptive parents. I think that less than stellar quality crossed many groups.<br /><br />On to this specific topic: my feeling is that parental visits should be enforced if initially agreed upon, but it needs to be fluid and based on comfort levels of the child. But please don't mistake that with the legal protection adoption affords those children who still find themselves in need of it through no fault of their own. Some of us would have given almost anything for that stability.<br /><br /><br />Jananoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-15917468839952774902015-03-01T21:24:52.595-05:002015-03-01T21:24:52.595-05:00Wow, that story of the baby switch from France is ...Wow, that story of the baby switch from France is really different from the usual narrative where there is an instant biological bond. Anything is possible, I guess.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-82177548989653148382015-03-01T21:24:02.072-05:002015-03-01T21:24:02.072-05:00Tiffany, I don't think this is off topic at al...Tiffany, I don't think this is off topic at all (and hopeful that Lorraine agrees). The fact is that, exactly as you've described, working out the intricacies of open adoption is complicated. I think it's one thing to say that OA is best, but an entirely different subject to talk about the most practical ways to work it out. <br />I was raised in OA but couldn't say with any certainty how to do it "better" or "right." It's a complex web of relationships - probably one of the most complex ever. You're right - there are books/blogs from adoptive parents and a few from biological parents, but until we have many more OA adoptee voices, we really won't have an understanding on a larger scale. Kat Stanleyhttp://www.sisterwish.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-65942559970166331332015-03-01T11:13:28.501-05:002015-03-01T11:13:28.501-05:00Visitation rights should be legally upheld in open...Visitation rights should be legally upheld in open adoptions, unless first parents becomes a threat to safety, in which case there is legal recourse. It should be like divorce, when non-custodial parents' visitation rights are enforced by law. I don't think any first parent should be encouraged to enter an open adoption in the strength of promises alone. They need to have their rights legally protected.. <br /><br />Lorraine said "I would even suspect that in some corner of America, some adoptive parent has terminated the adoption and the natural mother has adopted her own blood child at a still tender age. And you know what? The kid is almost certainly better off for it."<br /><br />Has anyone seen the story out of France-the two girl babies who were mixed up at birth and given to the wrong families in Cannes? Both families sued the private clinic and have been awarded $2.13 million dollars to be split between the two. They discovered the mistake early on and met when the girls were ten. It sounds like they were open to getting to know each other but "parents and daughters had trouble building any rapport, and they eventually stopped seeing each other. In the end, after some discussion, both families preferred to keep the child they had raised, rather than taking their biological one."<br /><br />http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/25/world/europe/in-france-a-baby-switch-and-a-test-of-a-mothers-love.html?_r=0Lisanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-80302512697349002662015-02-27T16:47:24.642-05:002015-02-27T16:47:24.642-05:00Kat, I've been reading your blog for a very lo...Kat, I've been reading your blog for a very long time. I really appreciate it because as you say, there are few OA adults out there talking about it. I have a lot of friends who are adopted, and some have searched, but none were in OA. It makes it hard because like you said, only those who live it can understand and convey it.<br /><br />It's challenging to know, as an adoptive parent, how to navigate these murky waters for my daughter. I have no concerns with her having a relationship with her other parents and no desire to keep them from her. What I do have are intense feelings of wanting this to be as easy as possible for her and wanting to be the supportive parent she needs. Unfortunately, there really isn't a map for that. I don't know exactly the best way to go about supporting her in having the relationship she will want with her parents. I have a hard time finding books that I like for adoptive parents. I find tons by first mothers and adoptees that tell me what *not* to do or how it feels to be an adoptee. And oh, I appreciate those so muh! I do. But I have a hard time finding sources to help me help my daughter navigate the complications life has handed her. I want to know what I *should* do. I recently was looking for a child's adoption book for her. Well, that didn't go very well. They all contained objectionable themes ("I grew in my mommy's heart..." blech!!) with the exception of one that was geared more towards foster care. It's a real struggle...<br /><br />Sorry if this is off topic.Tiffanynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-92122021228808046362015-02-27T16:01:48.783-05:002015-02-27T16:01:48.783-05:00Tiffany, I agree that while many go into open adop...Tiffany, I agree that while many go into open adoption with good intentions, it is very difficult for those relationships to be worked as the actual situation may completely differ from what had been anticipated. It is definitely more complex than what many realize. <br />There are very few open adoption adoptees who are outspoken about their experience. (I blog about it and if you click on my name, it should take you there). But, I hope that we will see many more OA adoptees talking about it more soon. They are the only voices that can describe what it's like as a child in that arrangement. Kat Stanleyhttp://www.sisterwish.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-32162560305263664492015-02-27T03:44:34.124-05:002015-02-27T03:44:34.124-05:00Guardianship only would be quick and permanent end...Guardianship only would be quick and permanent end to the selfish ''the child is our possession and we have ownership'' crap. This attitude is absolutely nothing new nor surprising to those of us who lost our children to this nasty practice called adoption. It has been the prevailing attitude and is much of the reason for the creation of the word ''adoptoraptor. <br /><br />It's the absolute misery that is caused to both the natural parents and to the child that makes adoption practices -open or closed- ABOMINABLE! Natural mothers/fathers should be allowed, supported and encouraged to raise their child. A child deserves to be raised in their family. That is their right by birth. No visitation required. ...and when and if a child must be raised by other than their own parent/s or family......Guardianship. No unnecessary abandonment issues, no closed records, no lies or secrets. no genealogical bewilderment, no why can't I live with my mother/parents?, nor any why didn't they keep me but they are raising sib/s?, why can't I go home with them? and my siblings? no nothin' but normal. And NO SELFISH, ENTITLED OWNERSHIP OF A HUMAN BEING. or dehumanizing abuse of another (i.e. mother/father) End of discussion. So tired of this.Cindy Aulabaughnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-71948435153912966582015-02-26T17:40:05.955-05:002015-02-26T17:40:05.955-05:00Kat, I really appreciated what you had to say. I ...Kat, I really appreciated what you had to say. I have read anything and everything I can find about adoptees who grew up in open adoptions because I am concerned on how it will impact my daughter.<br /><br />As an adoptive parent in an open adoption (where our level of contact has always been and still is determined completely by my daughter's parents), I would like to say that I find the comments on that FB page absolutely deplorable. The best interests of the child should be every parent's, adoptive or first, main concern. That is not at all what I see reflected in the comments. So much selfishness and an attitude that the child is a possession to which the adoptive parents have purchased the full rights. It makes me rather sick.<br /><br />My husband and I have always felt any child deserves to know his or her parents and family. That is their right. We also feel that someday, probably as a teen, our daughter will form her own relationship with her parents, and she has every right to do so to the level she desires. We have a very open adoption, but right now, my daughter's parents have little physical contact because I believe it is very hard for them, emotionally, to say goodbye over and over. I respect that. I've decided that like Kat says, it's hard for a child to be in that situation, so maybe this is for the best. It's certainly different from what we all talked about, but the changes towards less contact have been made by the first parents, not by us. <br /><br />Both legally and morally, I do not believe adoptive parents should have any ability to restrict the post-adoption contact agreement without mediation between all parties and a new court signed contact agreement. Frankly, the whole thing upsets me as I feel open adoption has been used as a carrot by adoption agencies and that was never the intent. Or at least, that was never the overt intent.Tiffanynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-17204272721325068092015-02-26T15:34:42.343-05:002015-02-26T15:34:42.343-05:00I'm still absorbing all of this. My child was ...I'm still absorbing all of this. My child was adopted in 1970 when I was 14. I think of my child everyday. I was taken by my parents to a home for unwed mothers and privately had the child. My siblings, husband and current children do not know. I want my child to have my health history. I'm not sure I'm emotionally equipped to have a reunion. Still thinking it through. Sadly through printing the birth mothers packet and watching the well made video on the OJFS website I determined the mothers address is not removed from the form. I still have family living at the address. An easy internet search will show who has lived at any address. The redaction process does not protect the birth mothers privacy. So sad this was not thought out. So when the stats come out that few birth mothers requested redaction be aware of the fact that it does not really protect them and it will be a factor. bill23BirthMotherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07451834815889483429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-20013655326224175922015-02-26T14:39:56.302-05:002015-02-26T14:39:56.302-05:00just scroll down at FB. Haven't bothered check...just scroll down at FB. Haven't bothered checking his website. Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-19183778482433613742015-02-26T14:14:01.682-05:002015-02-26T14:14:01.682-05:00Honestly, I think a lot of adoptive mothers do not...Honestly, I think a lot of adoptive mothers do not feel like they are the adopted persons mother. Not all, of course, but I personally know 3 that call themselves "mother" but then they are the first to walk when the adopted person is a pain in the ass. Reality, I, like you, don't have such an option. No matter what she does, she is my daughter and while I can refuse to let her into my world, if she really needed me (truly, not the bs that has been the norm for her) I would be there. It isn't an option, it's built in I AM HER MOTHER. Lorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05815710859859029536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-40244319693953094682015-02-26T13:45:18.603-05:002015-02-26T13:45:18.603-05:00Fostering is not always open, and in some cases th...Fostering is not always open, and in some cases the foster and bio parents are not allowed to meet. Nor do they necessarily work together in any way. I voluntarily put my child into foster care at birth, because I was too distraught to decide what to do. The agency suggested this while I "made up my mind". I was never allowed to know anything about the foster parents, even years later after I had found and reunited with my son. This was NOT a termination of parental rights case where the child was in any sort of danger of abuse or any other mistreatment. Foster care can be as much of a trap for new mothers as adoption. I eventually did surrender as my self-esteem continued to erode, just what the agency wanted. It certainly was nothing like a working open adoption.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-79266539184087680052015-02-26T13:37:30.921-05:002015-02-26T13:37:30.921-05:00Lori--Gross is all I can say to that.
But I do k...Lori--Gross is all I can say to that. <br /><br />But I do know that some adoptive parents freak out over the thought that there is another grandparent (as in related to) grand children of the adoptee. It's weird, but the lack of sharing (until maybe you can pitch in) is mind-boggling. Their willingness to now seek money from you is pathetic. <br /><br />As for me, I remember so clearly....my daughter's adoptive mother saying: If Jane and X get divorced, I'll take X. Nice, huh, that that is what she said. I don't know if her Alzheimer's was coming on yet but she said it twice to me a year apart. I wish I had said, I don't have such a choice and let that sink in. At the moment, I was too stunned to say anything. <br /><br />My daughter did cause a lot of commotion--but to say that? To her mother? Clearly, she didn't feel like Jane's mother. Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-55034071573594966192015-02-26T11:45:59.329-05:002015-02-26T11:45:59.329-05:00If you are going to ask that question, you have to...If you are going to ask that question, you have to take it a step farther: Should biological grandparents of an adopted person's children be allowed to see and know their grandchildren?<br /><br />I was denied for a VERY long time (one is now 18, the other 10) because the father thought that I should be denied since I "gave away" my child. Now, when he is realizing it costs a lot of money to put a child through college and he has 4 to send to college, that maybe I am worth something after all..... at least that is what I am feeling at the moment. This may only be my perception of the situation.Lorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05815710859859029536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-84876191501201218272015-02-25T23:57:35.252-05:002015-02-25T23:57:35.252-05:00The question is wrong. the question should be does...The question is wrong. the question should be does a child have the right to see his or her mother? And the answer is absolutely YES! <br /><br />Does anyone have a link to this on Dr Phil's website?Mirah Ribenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13626873757236976251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-86190247094443457832015-02-25T19:38:54.621-05:002015-02-25T19:38:54.621-05:00adoption should be open just like fostering. adopt...adoption should be open just like fostering. adoptive and foster parents are agreeing to caring and providing for a child and cannot insist on demands from that child. i suppose birth parents can relinquish their parenting 'rights' but in fact legally the child cannot enter into a contract so the whole thing is absurd imho - the child cannot relinquish his or her rights, in this case, rights to knowing about the birth parents.<br /><br />much of family law recognizes rights of grandparents and other relatives, and even children of certain ages, but tends to ignore the rights of the 'just born' and that needs to change. - nj (adoptee)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-16110519993621507192015-02-25T19:02:20.503-05:002015-02-25T19:02:20.503-05:00I am all in favor of natural parents having visita...I am all in favor of natural parents having visitation rights. One result would be fewer AP's with an "ownership" attitude. It might result in fewer adoptions.momengineernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-90509323670794149052015-02-25T18:40:09.089-05:002015-02-25T18:40:09.089-05:00Adoptee 123< I was not referring to the fact th...Adoptee 123< I was not referring to the fact the people move because of jobs, etc. I have heard from a number of women who deliberately "got lost," move far away, to deny any contact with the mother of the child. <br /><br />And often agencies present women considering adoption with profiles of parents from cities and towns several states away, as in the case of Catelyn and Tyler. There were no willing adoptive parents in all of Michigan? Instead, the parents of the child are in one of the southern states, I don't recall which. <br />Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-29874401876603186162015-02-25T18:34:27.077-05:002015-02-25T18:34:27.077-05:00The adoption becomes closed often because the adop...The adoption becomes closed often because the adoptive parents move, have unlisted numbers, lied about who they were, all "openness" is arranged by the agency, letters must pass through the agency,etc., and so the agency says they are "open," they are really closed, except at the whim and discretion of the adoptive parents. <br /><br />Many "open" adoptions are scams to get the baby. Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.com