tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post1059927113711014730..comments2024-03-14T17:59:30.786-04:00Comments on [Birth Mother] First Mother Forum: Does everyone have a basic need to know the truth of their origins? Lorraine Duskyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-14503840346153717192013-05-29T07:28:22.255-04:002013-05-29T07:28:22.255-04:00The "ideal" for a child is to be born an...The "ideal" for a child is to be born and raised in the one loving and functional family. In adoption, one is born into one family and raised in another. I think many adoptees want to be "as if born" into their adoptive family so they can be like everyone else and not have to deal with the unknown. I think for many that is the best way for them to cope with being adopted, i.e. by ignoring the fact that they are adopted. In fact, it seems that those who consider themselves happy about being adopted probably wish adoption wasn't in their life at all. <br /><br />Just one thing, I have no problems with adoptees who have no wish to search. What does get on my goat though is when those who have no wish to search imply that it is because they are already fulfilled. I felt complete before I made contact but now I am able to put things more into context - something I didn't expect. cnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-77805857498192517942013-05-27T11:00:38.191-04:002013-05-27T11:00:38.191-04:00Adoptmuss, no one is "laying this on you;&quo...Adoptmuss, no one is "laying this on you;" no one is blaming you for what happens in the process of being given up by someone and adopted and raised by another family. But the effects of that are the reason legislators don't see the need to change the law more quickly than it is happening. That is just the way it is, just as what you describe is also the way it is. <br /><br />I know that you found your natural family and were not welcomed, as I recall, and I don't remember the details but they were not pretty--which is even evident in the name you chose to write with. <br /><br />And I think everyone here agrees that the "rules" of adoption were not written for the benefit of the adopted; if that were the case, the records never would have been sealed. At least in NY, they were sealed because an adoptive father was governor at the time. And it is true that in many cases, it is an adoptive parent (Joe Bruno, Steve Saland) or uncle (Danny O'Donnell), or an aunt (the woman in Rhode Island whose name escapes me) who become a stumbling block on the way to equity for adoptees. In New Jersey a bill was finally passed that had a one year window for a veto, but Gov. Chris Christie (who has an adopted sister) wouldn't even sign that and vetoed that. As long as he is governor, NJ almost certainly won't get a good bill become law. <br /><br />Yes, that sucks. <br /><br />All this is one reason I so admire Lou D'Allesandro in New Hampshire, the adoptive father who made unsealing the records with NO VETO for the birth parent there his mission. It helped that he is one of the most powerful people in the New Hampshire legislature.<br /><br />In New York, we have adoptive grandfather Sen. William Larkin who supports our bill, even though its chief sponsor in the Senate is now someone else. In British Columbia, if I am not mistaken, the records were unsealed when a woman who was a first mother was the highest-ranking official in the province. (Her name, anybody?) <br /><br />This is at least an example of how private interests determine legislation.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-20754823442745159962013-05-27T09:14:45.297-04:002013-05-27T09:14:45.297-04:00Most, if not all adoptees are programed from infan...Most, if not all adoptees are programed from infancy not to ask too many questions. We can see the look on our adopters faces when we do. We have to comply, because we have to eat. After awhile the natural bonds we felt with our mothers change into something else. Sometimes it changes to hate. How can someone do such a terrible thing to us? We build walls, and for some of us, the walls cannot be torn down, they are part of our identity. It's not our fault that the records are, were, and remain sealed. It was not for our benefit. Nothing in adoption was for our benefit. <br /><br />We had to adapt to the most unnatural of conditions, and now I feel we're being judged for not behaving the way some of you want us to. Again. We can never win. Look for you roots, bad adoptee. Don't care about your roots? Bad adoptee. <br /><br />Don't lay this one on us.adoptomussnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-51741647610063827062013-05-26T21:02:36.852-04:002013-05-26T21:02:36.852-04:00"And yet they wonder why the laws stay sealed..."And yet they wonder why the laws stay sealed." <br /><br />No actually, they don't.<br />They don't care at all.<br />That's kind of the whole point.<br />Beenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-35565898645749308732013-05-26T15:39:57.851-04:002013-05-26T15:39:57.851-04:00When I write to legislators today I point out imme...When I write to legislators today I point out immediately that I will not benefit if they unseal the original birth records. To me, it is a matter of principle that anyone is denied their true heritage. That it continues personally affronts my sense of justice. I did leave the active movement for more than a decade and so very little happened in that time, when I thought surely the records would have been opened by the turn of the century. Slowly I began to feel that my work--the real work of my life--was not yet done. And so I came back. <br /><br />Giving up my daughter was so traumatic and changed my life so deeply that I felt I had to use the experience for some good in the world. In doing so, I have made plenty of people angry and upset, and I accept that. Change brings upheaval and confusion and anger. <br /><br />I was thinking about your comment, Robin, when I was reading The NY Times review section after I read and posted your remark, and came upon these words..."if you looked carefully at Johnson’s remarks [speaking at Gettysburg on Memorial Day to make a 100th anniversary of Lincoln's speech]and saw how they grew out of King’s “Letter From Birmingham Jail,” in which the civil-rights leader spoke of his frustration with the pace of change:<br /><br />“For years now I have heard the word ‘Wait!’ It rings in the ear of every Negro with piercing familiarity. This ‘Wait’ has almost always meant ‘Never.’ We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that ‘justice too long delayed is justice denied.’ ”<br /><br />Johnson’s speech directly addressed King: “The Negro today asks justice. We do not answer him — we do not answer those who lie beneath this soil — when we reply to the Negro by asking, ‘Patience.’ It is empty to plead that the solution to the dilemmas of the present rests on the hands of the clock.” <br /><br />Replace the word Negro with "adoptee."Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-9395627166109239082013-05-26T15:34:17.816-04:002013-05-26T15:34:17.816-04:00Oh come on. Adoptees who say they are indifferent ...Oh come on. Adoptees who say they are indifferent about finding out about their biological roots are the reason laws are not changing more quickly? I disagree. I think parents who gave up their children wanting and expecting anonymity, adoptive parents who are afraid of their children knowing their biological information, and agencies that have participated in fraudulent adoption activity are more likely to be the reason laws aren't changing more quickly.<br /><br /><br />Campbellhttp://campbellscoup.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-57143928920365593892013-05-26T13:23:02.696-04:002013-05-26T13:23:02.696-04:00Anon 5:36pm wrote "It is interesting to see h...Anon 5:36pm wrote "It is interesting to see how few people are commenting at the new post, the one about writing to legislators."<br /><br />I think one of the issues no one is mentioning is burnout. Many people have worked for years and years and nothing or very little has changed. I doubt that records will be opened in my natal state. I have found that I am of more use doing record searches and providing other suggestions to help people find their lost family members.<br /><br />Lorraine wrote "I am however flabbergasted by the lack of interest from so many adoptees about their roots."<br /><br />Well, as you know I was passionately interested in finding my roots. I refused to go to my grave without knowing who created me and brought me in to this world. Even my own mother said "I always knew you'd find me." Although I did have a huge advantage in that I did have her name.Robinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-74929713793939937242013-05-26T13:02:49.233-04:002013-05-26T13:02:49.233-04:00Bee, thank you for also understanding what is goin...Bee, thank you for also understanding what is going on with K from Canada.<br /><br />But at this point, I have given up "trying to incite" people. I am however flabbergasted by the lack of interest from so many adoptees about their roots. I am merely pointing out that their indifference is the reason the laws are not changing more quickly. I will continue to fight for them, but by merely stating what I observe, some adoptees take mighty offense. And yet they wonder why the laws stay sealed. <br /><br />As for action from the adoptees, that impulse has to come from within.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-35449470742865144482013-05-26T12:51:12.449-04:002013-05-26T12:51:12.449-04:00Why doesn't anonymous from Canada just admit w...Why doesn't anonymous from Canada just admit who she is? You can tell just from writing style she is indeed a usual suspect.<br /><br />I am reading this post as not a chiding of adoptees who have no interest, as many do but as a call to rally those adoptees who do care but have never advocated for themselves before. Unfortunately, I don't think it is quite as effective when it comes from a first mother. I am assuming it is the context of this post that is inciting people.<br />Plus "anon" from Canada has very clearly stated ad nauseum that she has no interest in being an advocate and she tends to personalize much of what is written on this forum. Beenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-8049155426408423622013-05-26T08:34:22.275-04:002013-05-26T08:34:22.275-04:00Anonymous and anonymous, I have no idea exactly w...Anonymous and anonymous, I have no idea exactly what your comment means. It is always different when something is said by a different person but there is a truth usually or often if the same people are saying the same thing, more or less. <br /><br />Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-52869946300958753022013-05-25T22:12:41.684-04:002013-05-25T22:12:41.684-04:00Robin wrote on May 25, 2013 at 6:03 PM:
"Ano...Robin wrote on May 25, 2013 at 6:03 PM: <br />"Anon 3:23pm, Again I did not write this line "but as Robin wrote, something in the adoption process itself shuts down the impulse to find out anything about one's self." I was quoting Lorraine :)And just adding my thoughts to her idea." "<br /><br />As Lorraine wrote on May 24, 2013 at 4:29 PM, "as Robin wrote, something in the adoption process itself shuts down the impulse to find out anything about one's self."<br /><br />No problem there. I was responding to Lorraine.<br />I guess it's different when she does it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-77352703956243413452013-05-25T18:03:00.525-04:002013-05-25T18:03:00.525-04:00Anon 3:23pm,
Again I did not write this line &quo...Anon 3:23pm, <br />Again I did not write this line "but as Robin wrote, something in the adoption process itself shuts down the impulse to find out anything about one's self." I was quoting Lorraine :)And just adding my thoughts to her idea.<br /><br />I suspect you are the anon from Ontario that Lorraine was referring to.Robinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-3335219612438592192013-05-25T17:36:34.727-04:002013-05-25T17:36:34.727-04:00Question. After reading all these comments, do you...Question. After reading all these comments, do you understand why the legislation is not passing more quickly? Frankly I am amazed at the tenacity of those who stay committed given the kind of attitude I read here. <br /><br />Some adoptees care very much. Some aren't bothered and are not going to bother. Some adoptees are going to advertise how they aren't interested and hurt the movement. Wonderful.<br /><br />It is interesting to see how few people are commenting at the new post, the one about writing to legislators.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-53349863460940557142013-05-25T17:25:36.984-04:002013-05-25T17:25:36.984-04:00Robin,
Your words "a sign of the effectivene...Robin,<br /><br />Your words "a sign of the effectiveness of adoption"<br /><br />Thank you, this makes so much sense to me.JOnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-84748390101056020762013-05-25T16:32:19.238-04:002013-05-25T16:32:19.238-04:00Good analysis, Anonymous.
If we are going to get ...Good analysis, Anonymous.<br /><br />If we are going to get legislation passed, we do need people to care enough to demand/ask that the records be unsealed. But you have just explained why this movement is taking so long. All people obviously don't need to know. That shouldn't make the moral difference in passing this law, but it makes a practical difference when adoptees actually work against passage by talking about how they do not need to know. <br /><br />Think of it in terms of some other action: I am against the war in Viet Nam but I am too busy or otherwise preoccupied to demonstrate. Every woman should have the right to an abortion but I personally think it's wrong and would never get one. I think gays should be allowed to marry but I'm gay and it's not something I feel the need to do, or get involved in since I don't want to get married at this point myself....<br /><br />I find this situation sad.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-50921470206568082522013-05-25T15:23:07.516-04:002013-05-25T15:23:07.516-04:00"I certainly don't mean it is a lack of i..."I certainly don't mean it is a lack of intelligence,<br /><br />But you are insinuating in a not very roundabout way that for an adoptee to insist they are not interested in discovering their roots is either a lie or they are "in the fog" because they haven't had the essential experience that would lift that fog for them. To me, that is tantamount to saying you don't accept their reality and what they call their "truth" isn't truth at all - rather it is a mirage, brought brought about by the thirst for biological connectedness. <br /><br />". . . but as Robin wrote, something in the adoption process itself shuts down the impulse to find out anything about one's self." <br /><br />Anything? Adoption skews a lot of things, but there are other important aspects to self-discovery and self-actualization that don't have to do with knowing one's genealogical roots, although obviously biological history is a significant building-block that everyone deserves to have. The question is, is knowing your origins essential to becoming a fully self-actualized human being ? I would say not for everyone. There are those unable to trace their ancestry who grow up to lead satisfying and rewarding lives and become fully self-actualized people *in spite* of what they have lost - even though they grieve that loss in all its ambiguity. <br />Now, I know that that "in spite of" is important. The lack, even though an absence, presents an obstacle. It is a gulf to be bridged. That is why it angers me when a person's rightful history exists but is locked away and they don't have access to their own information, even if they want it. Or when the found original parent (usually the mother) refuses to divulge the full circumstances of their child's birth. But I rattle on. The point is that identity is a very fluid concept, and the fact that some adoptees' ideas of what constitutes self is different from yours and Robin's doesn't indicate a deficit on their part.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-52124538443333494772013-05-25T14:51:45.722-04:002013-05-25T14:51:45.722-04:00Barb said: "Some of you cautioned about genet...Barb said: "Some of you cautioned about genetic loss/medical history. I have done a DNA test and have a fairly accurate idea of what, if any issues, I am more likely to encounter medically. Further more knowing your biological family or history is not a complete blue print or foretelling of what medical hurdles you may one day face. I am dilligent with annual check ups and screenings."<br /><br />Barb - I sincerely hope that your route to living a healthy life is never compromised, and that what steps you have taken are enough.<br /><br />I took advantage of yearly screenings, health check ups, and I questioned everything. I did okay for a long time, I felt protected and had always been very healthy and never sick. I did not have the dna tests because they weren't available then - and I would not take them now because I feel they create a false sense of security in people.<br /><br />Every professional will tell you that your FHH (a well documented FHH) is the key tool and DNA tests are only of secondary benefit. They will tell you this because:<br /><br />They have not discovered all the causitive gene(s) for all diseases. They have not discovered what other gene(s)turn on or off the causitive genes. They have not learned everything for the COMMON diseases - let alone the est 7,000 RARE diseases which by the way effect 1 in 12 Americans.<br /><br />The age of screening tests is also based on the average age - take breast cancer for example - it if runs in your family, and is early onset, you are encoraged to start getting screened ten years earlier than the age of closest/latest relative to have received the diagnosis - some have to start screening in their early twenties, when screening does not typically happen until you hit forty.<br /><br />Even if I had done a DNA test it would not have predicted my outcome because I am part of a study now trying to FIND the gene(s) responsible for my disease. The key knowledge I needed was my FHH that I lacked. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-16587396216275702412013-05-25T09:20:01.883-04:002013-05-25T09:20:01.883-04:00"something in the adoption process itself shu..."something in the adoption process itself shuts down the impulse to find out anything about one's self."<br /><br />It is the institution of adoption. The adoption industry and many (not all) adoptive parents want to make believe that biology does not make one a parent.* But it does. A child's natural parents are her parents. And the parents of the natural parents are the child's grandparents. The natural parents' siblings are the child's aunts and uncles and their children are the child's cousins.<br /><br />Biology does make one a parent even if the natural parents don't raise the child. Biology makes family.<br /><br />*I do think this has lessened to some extent with the advent of open adoption.Robinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-78474570379215114122013-05-24T16:29:38.532-04:002013-05-24T16:29:38.532-04:00I certainly don't mean it is a lack of intelli...I certainly don't mean it is a lack of intelligence, but as Robin wrote, something in the adoption process itself shuts down the impulse to find out anything about one's self. And then the state says, right, that's why we shut the records; you don't need or want to go there. But all too often adoptees wait until their adoptive parents have died to search, so that would indicate that that event has a major effect on what adoptees previously had shut down. This is what a very good friend of my husband did, and countless other adoptees. <br /><br />I accept that that is the situation. I find it less than comforting as a too small group of adoptees and first parents are working very hard to get the old laws changed. The lack of interest does give legislators an out--if most adoptees send out the message: Not interested, they can thing: No problem. We'll leave things as they are. Numbers matter. <br /><br />And consider the Angelinia Jolie effect on the BRCA gene. Her breast removal certainly is encouraging other woman to follow suit. That is only human, If she can do it, I will have the BRCA test...and maybe. I am sure the stock of the company that owns the patent in the BRCA gene has shot up, if it is a publically held company. Same is true in any act like that, adoption curiosity about roots not an exception. <br /><br />And now I have to say, we seem to be getting a number of these anonymous comments from the usual suspects in Canada.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-50891481946225575362013-05-24T16:12:36.393-04:002013-05-24T16:12:36.393-04:00"Pls re-read. I did not write that, Lorraine ..."Pls re-read. I did not write that, Lorraine did in her comment at 7:07pm"<br /><br />So she did! My comment should have been addressed to her. I was confused by the fact that she placed the words "Robin: Exactly!" immediately beneath that sentence. <br /><br />It still remains that there is no mention in the OP of celebs and people who write magazine articles to advertise the fact that they are not interested in their heritage. <br />I've searched and found and I'm glad I did, but the implication that *not wanting to search* indicates a lack of intelligence IS insulting, and it's not going to goad people who don't want to into doing so or stop celebs and others from writing about why they don't. In fact it may spur more of them on to do that very thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-14635059808560165262013-05-24T10:47:19.934-04:002013-05-24T10:47:19.934-04:00Barb wrote:"Finally, I'm not at all certa...Barb wrote:"Finally, I'm not at all certain what the commenter meant by stating I am missing some basic element of humanity."<br /><br />Your comment completely proves my point. As I wrote before, many adoptees don't understand what they're missing. I can practically guarantee that if you were to find your biological relatives you would know exactly what I meant by that. <br /><br />You do have parents and grandparents and siblings but you have no genetic ties to them and no shared genetic history.<br /><br />It is of course your choice whether you want to know them or not. And there is nothing wrong with not wanting to search and/or reunite. But there is a missing piece in your life from that choice and it is a piece which most people in the world take for granted.Robinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-87011454903845440462013-05-24T10:29:12.245-04:002013-05-24T10:29:12.245-04:00@Anon 9:29 wrote "Robin said "We are tal...@Anon 9:29 wrote "Robin said "We are talking about celebs and others who want to advertise they are not interested in their heritage. We are talking about people who write magazine articles about being totally happy without a lack of information. That is what fuels inaction."<br /><br />Pls re-read. I did not write that, Lorraine did in her comment at 7:07pm.Robinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-59656977435348798382013-05-24T09:35:45.849-04:002013-05-24T09:35:45.849-04:00Barb, Your decision is yours, and I state in the p...Barb, Your decision is yours, and I state in the post that I have two friends who have chosen not to complete a search or to get involved in the adoptee rights movement. That is their choice and I don't bug them about it--in fact, I make every effort to not even discuss what I am doing and feel embarrassed when somebody brings it up because I think it might make them feel uncomfortable. Neither were adopted in New York. <br /><br />But while a handful of people--adoptees and first mothers, typically, I know almost no biological fathers involved but I have lobbied with one--are trying to move a mountain the lack of sheer numbers of people who will write a letter or make a phone call or do anything to work on this issue is preventing this movement from quicker and greater success in knocking down the sealed records. We may actually have a chance this year in New York, but our numbers are small. If anyone reading this would like to write some emails today--which is what I will be doing, writing to legislators who are not in support of our bill--please contact me. We need all the help we can get.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-22004823635307782492013-05-24T09:27:19.943-04:002013-05-24T09:27:19.943-04:00"Elitist? Please . . . How about this quote i..."Elitist? Please . . . How about this quote instead if you don't like hers: Socrates: "The unexamined life is not worth living.""<br /><br />Socrates' maxim has an elitist underbelly. Reproaching others for not thinking and exhorting them to self-examine because without that their lives wouldn't be "worth living" has disturbing implications. <br />Most people in the past and even today don't have the luxury of scrutinizing their lives in the minutely detailed way Socrates meant. They may wonder in passing, but most are much too busy struggling for survival to get heavily engaged in philosophical questions about the nature of their existence. <br />If the examined life is one in which more than just a little personal inner searching takes place, great numbers of our species aren't much more than beasts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-28175069161871302972013-05-24T09:15:37.809-04:002013-05-24T09:15:37.809-04:00"A better and far less manipulative way to re..."A better and far less manipulative way to reach these "apathetic" adoptees is to remind them *repeatedly* that whether they want to discover their origins or not, they are being denied a right belonging to and taken for granted by the rest of the population."<br /><br />If you are a slave to a rule that controls your life, do you need to be reminded repeatedly? Apathy leads to closed records, like the writer of the blog post says.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com