tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post1854402846332411803..comments2024-03-14T17:59:30.786-04:00Comments on [Birth Mother] First Mother Forum: Broken Bonds: The undeniable connection between slavery and adoptionLorraine Duskyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-32823510603687848582013-02-07T20:34:13.744-05:002013-02-07T20:34:13.744-05:00Thank you, Anonymous! You made my night.
Thank you, Anonymous! You made my night.<br />Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-76866561549283882402013-02-07T19:31:52.502-05:002013-02-07T19:31:52.502-05:00Having found this blog after the whole SIF debacle...Having found this blog after the whole SIF debacle (being neither infertile or knowing huge amounts of adoption in America as I'm Scottish) I didn't understand where First Mother's were coming from when they were linking adoption and slavery. Frankly, I was shocked by it as it seems such an extreme comparison on the surface. However,this extremely eloquent and sensitive post has made it abundantly clear. <br />Such a heartfelt, thought provoking and well written piece that explains how First Mothers and adoptees feel to those of us who truly have no idea/experience of the matter. Well done Lorraine, the sensitivity and thought you have clearly put into this piece is to be applauded. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-3296896708180710052013-02-04T17:05:22.582-05:002013-02-04T17:05:22.582-05:00Renee--Right. That is why I included the recent st...Renee--Right. That is why I included the recent story out of Florida. Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-51327853843987062432013-02-04T17:04:25.749-05:002013-02-04T17:04:25.749-05:00Anonymous, I think the large point of slavery--tha...Anonymous, I think the large point of slavery--that it is a contract that the adopted person cannot control is the most basic of connections between adoption and slavery, and I have said so before to the ire of many. Adoptees have no say about the adoption, the fact of the sealed records, et cetera--all is unconscionable. <br /><br />That aspect of slavery/adoption is covered more thoroughly in my previous post about the connection, the link is at the bottom of the post. <br /><br />However, William's book--HELP ME TO FIND MY PEOPLE-Is about the separation aspect of slavery, and she does talk both about the distress of both parents and children when separated and later searching. Because I am not an adopted person, I refrained from making your very valid point, and I am glad you did. However, several of the stories I relate here quote the slaves who were searching for parents, and that directly relates to the adoption experience.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-35571198564501584242013-02-04T16:01:16.470-05:002013-02-04T16:01:16.470-05:00IT still goes on when agencies push expectant moms...IT still goes on when agencies push expectant moms into the role of birthparent...<br /><br />it goes on today when an agency is answering the phone for a crisis pregnancy and they represent the adoptive parents. <br /><br />Take the money out of adoption- and these stories may become fewer and further between. Standardize adoption laws- at least a week after birth before a relinquishment form can be legally signed and a standard 30 days(at least) period of time to change one's mind...<br /><br />The story about the mom calling a central fl agency the day after signing breaks my heart- there is no period of time in which a birthmom can legally change her mind if the child is under 6 months of age...unless she can prove fraud. reneenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-44080117995817594232013-02-04T15:24:16.258-05:002013-02-04T15:24:16.258-05:00I wish it had been pointed out how much adoption i...I wish it had been pointed out how much adoption is like slavery FOR adoptees. I remember watching old movies, where slaves were expected to care about what was going on in the slave owners life and their feelings and how much it disgusted me. Well adoptees are suppose to care about the poor adoptive mothers pain about not being able to have her own child while so many adoptive mothers don't care a hoot about how much growing up in a closed adoption has hurt them. Not being able to know their parents names, not being able to hear from their mother what happened, not getting details about their birth and being forced to live the lie that an infertile women gave birth to them, which makes most adoptees feel totally unvalidated. Adoption IS like slavery for both first mothers and adoptees in different ways and both are demeaning and insulting!.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-4215899488994926592013-02-04T11:31:08.133-05:002013-02-04T11:31:08.133-05:00I would say send this article to as many expectant...I would say send this article to as many expectant mothers as possible. Because although everyone is saying they're saints NOW for choosing adoption, those nasty comments could be what people will be saying about them, 20 years from now. (Especially if their child becomes successful.)Moonstarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-15680483342882754072013-02-02T18:22:37.275-05:002013-02-02T18:22:37.275-05:00Anyone who questions whether agencies or social wo...Anyone who questions whether agencies or social workers "do a number" on expectant mothers has not seen it first hand.<br /><br />I was at a birth where the mother was going to place her baby for adoption. (Even though I'd tried to talk her out of it...)<br /><br />At one point early on in labor, she was crying and saying that she "only had 48 hours" to be with her baby. I told her to take him home and then decide. <br /><br />You know what she asked me? "Is that legal??" I emphatically reminded her that until she signed those papers he was still her baby and she could walk right out the door with him!<br /><br />One can only assume what the agency must have implied to her, or just outright fabricated. I was so stunned by that question...<br /><br />The social worker "appeared" in the labor room later on. She hovered around the mother's bed acting solicitous and would then drift away to talk to the mother's boyfriend.<br /><br />The mother looked uncomfortable with all that, so when I had a chance to ask her quietly if she wanted the SW to leave, she said "Yes", but you could tell she was afraid to say so. I then had one of the nurses tell the woman to leave.<br /><br />Later in the evening I walked out for a drink or something with the mother's boyfriend. We were coming back down the hall when the SW caught up with us. She asked "How is she doing?" I replied: "She's very upset."<br /><br />I was in for my SECOND amazing question of the night when the clueless and idiotic SW asked me "Why is she upset?" I said "She's about to be separated from her baby!" She didn't reply and she didn't give me a particularly offensive look, she just looked...surprised.<br /><br />How can anyone do that sort of job and be surprised at all the emotions and grief?!?! <br /><br />I totally get your comparisons Lorraine and agree with them wholeheartedly. It defies imagination that these attitudes are still around in the 21st century.<br /><br />And for anyone who thinks that might story is an old one, this was in late 2007.A second momnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-81927644646082382252013-02-02T18:19:42.374-05:002013-02-02T18:19:42.374-05:00Agree with your sentiments completely.
Agree with your sentiments completely.<br /><br />Motherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04701407465248392373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-36615145073656434152013-02-02T15:12:21.449-05:002013-02-02T15:12:21.449-05:00Thought provoking article - I think the title &quo...Thought provoking article - I think the title "Broken Bonds" said it all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-5845392827267915142013-02-02T14:38:57.061-05:002013-02-02T14:38:57.061-05:00Anonymous said: "But slavery implies the ide...Anonymous said: "But slavery implies the idea of torture and/or neglect/starvation.Adoption doesn't really have a common parallel with any of that -- or at the very least, is not intended to." Adoption IS torture to those who have had their newborns taken from them and to those who have had their natural mother taken. Absolute torture and for a lifetime. No only that, you have your grandchildren taken, too, into infinity. It is neglect (abuse) of the mother and the child!! It is starvation of the soul and the spirit. It robs the mother and child of a natural and normal life. It tears apart families/tribes. I'm sorry.. I completely DISagree that it isn't any of those things because it absolutely IS. Karen WB... see babyscooper.acomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-10056706679797776952013-02-02T00:15:02.741-05:002013-02-02T00:15:02.741-05:00Oh absolutely it was still going on in the 80'...Oh absolutely it was still going on in the 80's. Not 24 hrs. after my daughter was born, the social worker swooped into my hospital room, and scooped up my sleeping baby. She even changed her diaper, without my permission! (found out later that's how social workers would verify whether a child was truly caucasian or not...they could tell by the coloring of the genitals...nice, right?) She even went and placed the order for hospital pictures! But I digress...lol. Talk about inspecting the merchandise...<br /><br />By the way, she was NOT invited!Amyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10115696612301521540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-73332074970340143192013-02-01T22:24:30.434-05:002013-02-01T22:24:30.434-05:00Canadian Mother, thank you for pointing out that a...Canadian Mother, thank you for pointing out that atrocities did not end for everyone by the Seventies. Such stories are rare, I hope, but painful reminders of the sorry reality for some mothers.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-63465578778648538572013-02-01T21:37:00.124-05:002013-02-01T21:37:00.124-05:00Thank you for pointing out that the atrocities did...Thank you for pointing out that the atrocities didn't stop in the 1970's. Barbara Thavishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13646036820037271522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-45301530439987361882013-02-01T19:51:40.183-05:002013-02-01T19:51:40.183-05:00I do have to say that the quoted text is not, imho...I do have to say that the quoted text is not, imho, correct. Although many mothers were not beaten and sold, many were tied down, threatened, some were beaten during delivery and so on. In addition, it was our baby who was sold. <br />I was held hostage at the hospital for four days for my baby, this was the end of 1988. I truly wish people would stop saying that these practices stopped in the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's because they certainly did not and even today there are many instances, maybe not quite so obvious but just as damaging as agencies wage psychological warfare against mothers. <br />Although, I know what you meant in what you wrote. It was pointing out what some people missed that was written which seemed to be inflammatory. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-90117385417351099472013-02-01T18:33:41.018-05:002013-02-01T18:33:41.018-05:00Nadese, My apologies.
Zandie: "Who allows th...Nadese, My apologies.<br /><br />Zandie: "Who allows themselves to be played by the agency? Who doesn't just say "no?"<br /><br />Sounds similar to the the victim blaming we often hear in rape. People often say the same thing about both: "No one had a gun to your heard." <br /><br />True enough for mothers in the US and other industrialized countries. It took no weapons to get us to sign...what it took was playing on our love for children. Being told if you love your baby you'll let it go to have a "better" life; that keeping your hcild would be SELFISH and cruel because you had little to offer it.<br /><br />I urge you to read the Girls Who Went Away by Ann Fessler to gain some COMPASSION and a view of what social pressures were like in past decades. <br /><br />I just read on FB about a mother in 1946 being JAILED for unwed opregnancy!Mirah Ribenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13626873757236976251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-66572199535094713372013-02-01T18:22:08.241-05:002013-02-01T18:22:08.241-05:00"Of course slavery is a different institution..."Of course slavery is a different institution from adoption. We women, especially white women from the Forties through the early Seventies, were not beaten and sold...."<br /><br />from the post, as some readers seem to miss it.<br /><br />From what I read, even the author Williams compared the separation of families to the Orphan trains and separation of the aboriginal children from their families. Jane Doenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-60131475407510402432013-02-01T17:48:21.127-05:002013-02-01T17:48:21.127-05:00@Zandie: "Who allows themselves to be played ...@Zandie: "Who allows themselves to be played by the agency? Who doesn't just say "no?"<br /><br />This statement sounds much like a recent meme running on right-wing media outlets: "why didn't the slaves revolt, it was the folks in the north who had to free them, why didn't they just do it themselves?"<br /><br />The implication being that they just acquiesced because they weren't smart/strong/decent enough to free themselves. This same line of reasoning is used in all "blame the victim" scenarios: the raped woman didn't fight hard enough, the person mugged didn't dress down enough, the person scammed by a con artist didn't question enough, the wife who is abused didn't ask for help enough....<br /><br />These arguments are a way to simplify very complex and painful problems. If one can reduce the situation to "I wouldn't be in that situation becauce I'm too smart/strong/decent" then one can feel safe. But FEELING safe from exploitation doesn't make it reality.<br /><br />I don't think Lorraine is stating that adoption is the equivalent of the horrors of slavery. She is making a conneciton between what happened to family connections when people are separated and lost to each other for years on end. A lot of people in the adoption community refer to this as "collateral damage" - the damage that is done to the entire family constellation when a member is removed. This damage weaves its way around siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, and going down through mulitple generations. That's what is relevant in comparing adoption and slavery.maybehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07067284504038707207noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-71650356049180706352013-02-01T17:26:52.649-05:002013-02-01T17:26:52.649-05:00Excellent post Lorraine. It is unfortunate that mo...Excellent post Lorraine. It is unfortunate that most of society either is ignorant or just plain does not believe the trauma endured by most mothers who surrendered. It is also unfortunate that the deaths of the mothers or their surrendered child via adoption are not recorded as a statistic to show the true genocide which had and still does take place. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-72790788312322251502013-02-01T17:06:52.257-05:002013-02-01T17:06:52.257-05:00sorry Mirah but why do i need to read up on the or...sorry Mirah but why do i need to read up on the orphan train? I was there! I did mean as i said 'in some cases'. I think this article is very well written and very accurately and vividly describes the pain and heartbreak. I read constantly of the christian homes and childrens homes that have tons of deaths and people don't think of how difficult it is to kill someone in the prime of their life? these young innocent souls were tortured to death. people shrug their shoulders and say i don't know what happened. (i am saying oh yes they do) and yes slavery was TERRIBLE and a normal person knows that. i rarely ever meet people that say adoption is. You still see posters telling people to adopt, public displays and reminders of our intense grief, there aren't too many slaves for sale posters. nadesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16624552930797070394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-91499822623931170462013-02-01T14:33:58.540-05:002013-02-01T14:33:58.540-05:00Great post, but I found it hard to read about this...Great post, but I found it hard to read about this part of our country's history While my direct ancestors didn't come to the US until the late 1800's,early 1900's and settled in Boston and NYC,so thankfully they didn't participate in slavery, as an American we all inherited the institutionalized prejudice of our system which is thankfully starting to finally dissolve although much work remains. What I'm trying to say is that reading this post made me feel guilty,both as a white person in this country and as a birthmother. Sometimes, I just have to deal with the difficult feelings and not push them aside, I guess.Also, I apologize if I am wrong, but some of these comments sound like they were written by adoptees trying to make us feel even more guilty.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-1707756437209925402013-02-01T14:32:52.734-05:002013-02-01T14:32:52.734-05:00Thank youy Lorraine!!!
Poignantly, eloquently, ...Thank youy Lorraine!!! <br /><br />Poignantly, eloquently, beautifully written and the conenctions and parellels you draw are all too real for those of us who have lived it. Those who think these insitutions are vastly different - Nades and Zandie, et al - need to read up on the Orphan Train which took NY city children on trains out West and held them up to be taken in for "adoption" or as indentured servants. THIS is the actual historical connection between the two prcatices.<br /><br />This post, however, focuses specifically on the emotional toll of family seperation. Comparisons always engender knee jerk reactions from those who beleive that comparing something horrific to something perhaps less violent detracts from the first. It does not. But some will always need to register the compliant that it does. They need their cause, their pain, to be incomparable. It is understandable. But our pain draws these connections and it cannot NOT.<br /><br />"'There are circumstances in which a person experiences a sense of loss but does not have a socially recognized right, role, or capacity to grieve. In these cases, the grief is disenfranchised. The person suffers a loss but has little opportunity to mourn publicly.' Societies, Doka contends, construct norms, or grieving roles that specify who may grieve, for whom they may grieve, and for how long. Some grief is acknowledged, but other grief is not recognized.'"<br /><br />The pain of leaving a hospital maternity ward empty handed is multiplied to exruiating when you are disallowed speaking of it. I remember watching my milk wet my blouse and having to cover it up in shame and silent sorrow...<br /><br />I know all too well the feeling of being told to wipe my tears and be strong... not being "allowed" to feel the way I felt...treated like outcast, even nonhuman, "other", because after all, we were told, any dog can give birth!<br /><br />I had to go to work after learning that my [adopted out]daughter had taken her own life. My shock and grief were overwheleming but I had to hide my tears as the daughter who died was never listed as a dependent of mine, not recognized as my child at all - so there was no bereavement leave. <br /><br />For me the analogies are all too real. I do not say that with any dosrepesct for slavery or the descendants of slaves (nor did Lorraine)...I say it with a true knowing and ability to commiserate this one aspect of their suffering: the separation of mothers and child and siblings and the lifelong intergenerational toll that takes on us and all of our extended family before and after us....<br /><br />Mirah Ribenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13626873757236976251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-9263954472088035882013-02-01T12:37:51.100-05:002013-02-01T12:37:51.100-05:00Great post, Lorraine. It actually made me cry read...Great post, Lorraine. It actually made me cry reading it. I have had a hard time articulating the strong connection I feel between adoption and slavery and you did a beautiful job.<br /><br />It wasn't until reunion that I realized the horror of <br />A) What I had done and <br />B) what had been done to me <br />Up until that time I was a good soldier, putting one step in front of the other and believing my daughter had a Disney family which my family and the adoption agency promised. I never looked too close at WHY I wasn't good enough to raise her. I went with the party line that since I was young, poor (in college), and unmarried I must relinquish. I believed them when they told me that to raise her would be selfish. Besides, my parents told me I couldn't come home with “the baby”. <br />And then reunion happened. <br />All of the bull was exposed. I realized I was played like a bad hand of cards and my daughter and I were the collateral damage. <br />I got angry. <br />Really, really angry. <br />And then I realized how close adoption and slavery are connected. The reason I lost my daughter was because I was poor and had no power. Same as the slaves. I don’t know, nor do I want to find out, how much the adoption of my daughter cost her parents. But every day I see web sites and articles listing “opportunities” with costs associated with the color of skin of the child. Blue eyed, white babies cost the most. Dark skinned children go for quite a discount. How can people not see the association between adoption and slavery?<br />Barbara Thavishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13646036820037271522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-25813723151530586972013-02-01T11:39:45.480-05:002013-02-01T11:39:45.480-05:00Great article. As you pointed out, there are mean...Great article. As you pointed out, there are meaningful differences between slavery and adoption, but at their heart the are both based on the belief that it's acceptable to buy, sell, or own another human being.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-70440233763102794012013-02-01T11:21:57.875-05:002013-02-01T11:21:57.875-05:00As a black woman I take offense at this post, for ...As a black woman I take offense at this post, for many reasons. <br /><br />My family was kidnapped from Africa and brought to America by force. Many of my people died on the journey. Where are the millions of deaths from adoption? Where are the beatings? The forced labor? The horrible conditions? I was raised in the Black South. My great great-grandfather and mother were slaves. He worked 18 hour days and lived in a mud house. She worked as a nanny. All but two of their eleven children died because of the conditions. No one in adoption is being made to work and die like that.<br /><br />"First" mothers can choose where their child goes and demand some sort of contact if they want. Slaves didn't have that option. If you can't see that, I question your sanity. <br /><br />Perhaps if "first" moms are gullible enough to be "coerced", then maybe they don't have what it takes to be a parent. Who doesn't do their research these days? Who allows themselves to be played by the agency? Who doesn't just say "no"? States have rules about relinquishment and termination for a reason. What woman doesn't look this stuff up? When I was pregnant, I saw slick ads for new cars, homes, jewelry, or furniture all the time, doesn't mean I went out and bought it. Pregnancy hormones aren't some magic drug that turns women stupid, and suggesting that they do is just offensive to women. In today's society what woman who has an ounce of self-knowledge doesn't go into this with eyes open? <br /><br /><br /> Zandienoreply@blogger.com