tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post2536662019329641604..comments2024-03-27T20:48:39.389-04:00Comments on [Birth Mother] First Mother Forum: Adopted children killed by their parents as they "train" themLorraine Duskyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-69804064217049647762011-11-14T17:43:22.377-05:002011-11-14T17:43:22.377-05:00Amen Anne!
GGAmen Anne! <br /><br />GGGGnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-89775147959349911232011-11-13T19:40:22.908-05:002011-11-13T19:40:22.908-05:00The problem is adoption, it is an abnormal situati...The problem is adoption, it is an abnormal situation that is very easy to lead to abuse.Annenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-23803578752220725182011-11-13T01:06:13.469-05:002011-11-13T01:06:13.469-05:00The problem is not adoption, its adoption for reli...The problem is not adoption, its adoption for religious reasons. <br /><br />Adoptees would be better off if they were adopted by atheists. Perhaps that should be a requirement. Also, there should be a limit to how many children one couple can adopt and it might be better to only allow couples with no bio children to adopt. They are likely to be more invested in the adoptee.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-86399552169100825092011-11-12T08:49:41.964-05:002011-11-12T08:49:41.964-05:00Yes, Graff was whom I meant and thanks for providi...Yes, Graff was whom I meant and thanks for providing those excellent articles. Also agreeing with your last paragraph. especially on the subject of "The Great Commission."<br /><br />Among those with these beliefs, adoption is not mostly a "cure" for infertility, but a way to save heathen souls. Many of the Christian Fundamentalists who adopt already have biological children; some have more than they can handle, yet they adopt more at the behest of their church. Some of those who are infertile become "Child hoarders" adopting large numbers of special needs kids with little realistic preparation for what they are taking on. <br /><br />As Heavens to Betsy said, these kids are a project, not seen as individuals but as "souls" to be forced into a fanatic mold. The problems that already exist in any adoption are greatly multiplied for these unfortunate kids, especially the ones from other cultures.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-39994953294006301082011-11-11T14:51:51.692-05:002011-11-11T14:51:51.692-05:00For Robin, three by Graff:
The Lie We Love:
http:...For Robin, three by Graff:<br /><br />The Lie We Love:<br />http://www.brandeis.edu/investigate/gender/<br />adoption/docs/FPFinalTheLieWeLove.pdf<br /><br />The Baby Business <br />www.democracyjournal.org/17/6757.php<br />This article specifically mentions the Christian World Adoption Agency ("God is in control of our agency and your adoption").<br /><br />The Makeni Children:<br />http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/<br />doublex/features/2011/the_makeni_children/<br />in_1998_americans_adopted_29_children_from<br />_a_town_in_sierra_leone_their_birth_families_<br />say_they_were_stolen.html<br /><br />I too disagree that adoption is abuse by or in itself, or that all international adoptions that have taken place are necessarily tainted by corruption. <br />However, I do agree that adoption as an institution is dangerously open to abuse, and that when adoptive parents abuse the children in their trust the suffering and sense of loss felt by those children is exponentially compounded.<br />I also think that when children are removed from their situations within their original countries and adopted to fulfill the dictates of "The Great Commission", they are particularly vulnerable, because their adopters have no real interest in them except as a means to an end.HeavenstoBetsynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-26257533393513633532011-11-11T12:42:04.169-05:002011-11-11T12:42:04.169-05:00BEtsy:
Yes, that's one of the stories.BEtsy:<br /><br />Yes, that's one of the stories.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-32384208610310202722011-11-11T11:40:02.418-05:002011-11-11T11:40:02.418-05:00Was it "The Lie We Love"' by E. J Gr...Was it "The Lie We Love"' by E. J Graff?HeavenstoBetsynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-89072930071768447162011-11-11T11:03:04.363-05:002011-11-11T11:03:04.363-05:00Lo, my mind is blank on the name of the journalist...Lo, my mind is blank on the name of the journalist who wrote the great article debunking the "orphan crisis" worldwide. I know it has been featured here and many places but can't find it.<br /><br />Just a caveat ; for all that is wrong with international adoption,and very much is, not all of it is corrupt, and I don't want to be included with those who see all adoptive parents, international or domestic, as evil, or all adoption as "abuse". If everything is abuse, nothing is. It trivializes things like child rape committed by adoptive parent and founder of children's charity "The Second Mile" Sandusky. Sandusky procured victims, some foster kids, from his "charity".<br /><br />This is a story that will just get uglier and uglier as more is uncovered.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-65716493429773479942011-11-11T09:16:08.273-05:002011-11-11T09:16:08.273-05:00Robin, I see that Maryanne has already beaten me t...Robin, I see that Maryanne has already beaten me to it with Kathryn Joyce's excellent article, but if you want to hear it from the horse's mouth, there's this:<br />Orphan Care and the Great Commission Resurgence<br />http://www.russellmoore.com/2009/06/26/orphan-care-and-the-great-commission-resurgence/<br />"My prayer is that twenty years from now there are thousands of Southern Baptist pastors, missionaries, and church leaders who started their lives as orphans now preaching the Gospel of God their Father."<br />It's worth reading through the whole thing.<br /><br />Here is the Christian World Adoption Agency referred to by Kathryn Joyce in her article:<br />http://www.cwa.org/ which believes that "God is in control of our agency and your adoption".HeavenstoBetsynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-41647850942312170112011-11-11T09:03:54.481-05:002011-11-11T09:03:54.481-05:00And we at FMF have written numerous posts about th...And we at FMF have written numerous posts about the corruption in various countries. Pop in a country in the search function at the bottom of the blog (Guatemala, Nepal, China , etc.) and you start get links to our stories. Oh, and Harvard Professor Elizabeth Bartholet is another good name to search. She never met a kid from a poor country who wouldn't be better off adoption in a rich country.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-63175605491446990702011-11-11T08:52:32.139-05:002011-11-11T08:52:32.139-05:00Robin wrote:
I'm not very familiar with IA and...Robin wrote:<br />I'm not very familiar with IA and am interested in learning more."<br /><br />IA is complicated, often corrupt, and differs from country to country. I hope others with more expertise than I in this field will help answer this. <br /><br />But to get you started, here is an article about Evengelical "orphan ministries:<br />http://www.thenation.com/article/160096/evangelical-adoption-crusade<br /><br />Here is a site about international adoption in general by adult international adoptees:<br />http://www.transracialabductees.org/politics/samdolcritique.html<br /><br />Marley Greiner of Bastardette has written in depth about abused and murdered Russian adoptees:<br />www.bastardette@blogspot.com<br /><br />David Smolin:<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_M._Smolin<br /><br />There is much, much more out there.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-43636410745078226012011-11-10T21:31:44.909-05:002011-11-10T21:31:44.909-05:00See the sidebar on the left of the blog, at top.See the sidebar on the left of the blog, at top.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-41243713186996537822011-11-10T21:26:46.609-05:002011-11-10T21:26:46.609-05:00I just heard Penn state Sandusky is an adoptive pa...I just heard Penn state Sandusky is an adoptive parent to six adopted boys and fostered others. <br /><br />How many of those boys were abused by this "man" how many lives did he mess up?Suspiciousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-20998016765747540092011-11-10T17:10:18.272-05:002011-11-10T17:10:18.272-05:00Maryanne wrote:"That many of these churches h...Maryanne wrote:"That many of these churches have their own missions and international adoption agencies makes it all very cozy for the unfit, sadistic, and unprepared to adopt."<br /><br />I'm just wondering how this is done. I'm not very familiar with IA and am interested in learning more.<br /><br />RobinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-57488144264387574252011-11-10T15:23:15.230-05:002011-11-10T15:23:15.230-05:00Many of these orphanage kids have Reactive Attachm...Many of these orphanage kids have Reactive Attachment Disorder. It appears these parents don't have a clue about RAD. The current research suggests that the effective parenting approach is to use extremely gentle, non-confrontational methods--Soft-spokenness, nurturing and acceptance. Corporal punishment doesn't help RAD kids.<br /><br />If these parents had gotten any kind of counseling at all, they'd know that, but because of their fundamentalist background they probably would shy away from behavioral health professionals.Meganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16524888517035539671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-72331593853894428372011-11-10T12:15:58.335-05:002011-11-10T12:15:58.335-05:00http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/reli...http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/religion-and-abuse-judge-_b_1077778.html<br /><br />Interesting article on Fundamentalist "discipline" in general but does mention some of the children killed were adopted.<br /><br />I think there is a tie-in between the extremes of abuse and the Fundamentalist "adopt an orphan" ministries that urge adoption more to save souls and increase their numbers than to provide safe, decent homes for children. That many of these churches have their own missions and international adoption agencies makes it all very cozy for the unfit, sadistic, and unprepared to adopt.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-75268670672992944512011-11-09T19:13:51.133-05:002011-11-09T19:13:51.133-05:00hmmmm.... I wonder if these parents had enough f...hmmmm.... I wonder if these parents had enough forethought to realize that #1 what goes around comes around and #2 that these children will be choosing their nursing homes and caring for them in their old age...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10780360507508992953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-2670522376405147262011-11-09T17:20:54.922-05:002011-11-09T17:20:54.922-05:00Robin,
I have to agree with you adoption is a for...Robin,<br /><br />I have to agree with you adoption is a form of child abuse. It starts from the day of birth. Lies told to protect not the adoptee but those that adopt. When a child is forced to live <br />a lie instead of a truth what does that day? It days truth doesn't matter at least not your truth because mine is more important making sure the lies remain intact to protect me.<br /><br />I think it's an unhealty way to live and it's abuse plain and simple.Snoppynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-79285416277657213172011-11-09T12:48:05.786-05:002011-11-09T12:48:05.786-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-29522378581283877212011-11-09T12:08:10.776-05:002011-11-09T12:08:10.776-05:00DUFNPF:
This is not meant to be cheeky, but what ...DUFNPF:<br /><br />This is not meant to be cheeky, but what I mean is the next time you comment, hit the "name" category and put in DUFNPF or whatever you would like, and instead of "anonymous" your comment will come up DUFNPF (or other name) in the header and be easy to identify. <br /><br /> And I ask the same of those who are publishing running commentary and discussing issues with each other. That makes it easier for everyone to follow a thread. <br />Thank you.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-79218745743858380812011-11-09T12:00:41.558-05:002011-11-09T12:00:41.558-05:00This is from so-called Dear Unknown Faceless Name...This is from so-called Dear Unknown Faceless Nameless Person Assumed to be in Favor of Adoption in the name of God.<br /><br />One, I am a first mother. Two, I am not religious. Three, I do not have a blog. Four, I do not support adoption unless absolutely necessary and the pros outweigh the cons, by which I mean there is no parent or close original family willing or able to care for the child. <br />In accordance with your polite request, if I post again I shall sign myself DUFNPF.<br /><br />Here's a link to an article by Lisa Belkin on Huff PO.<br />Can Adoption Lead to Child Abuse?<br />http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lisa-belkin/adoption-spanking-childabuse_b_1081617.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-48109277589186080122011-11-09T11:43:49.641-05:002011-11-09T11:43:49.641-05:00Dear Unknown Faceless Nameless Person in Favor of ...Dear Unknown Faceless Nameless Person in Favor of Adoption in the name of God: <br /><br />A) please use some kind of moniker to make following your thread easier. <br /><br />B) Before you accuse us and others to be against all adoption, please read: WHAT WE THINK ABOUT ADOPTION, one of our permanent pages. You can find it hear the top of the blog, just under the name, BM, First Mother Forum. And remember, we do not go to your blogs to antagonize you.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-36180437938151940622011-11-09T09:15:29.111-05:002011-11-09T09:15:29.111-05:00Kristi, thank you for replying.
It seems to me th...Kristi, thank you for replying. <br />It seems to me that in view of what you have written here ("The two (Christianity and adoption) DO NOT go together") not only do you disagree with Elisa Morgan, but also, because of that fundamental disagreement, you do not even consider her Christian.<br /><br />What would you consider to be the best option for the few children whose natural parents and extended family are simply unwilling or unable to raise them? Or for children whose circumstances within their natural families are so dire that it would be dangerous for them to remain there? For the latter in particular guardianship is not always a viable option.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-58318947143173364142011-11-09T01:19:06.997-05:002011-11-09T01:19:06.997-05:00I don't trust myself at the moment to stay rel...I don't trust myself at the moment to stay relatively balanced or coherent in anything I have to say about this subject. My own son was mentally and physically abused by his adoptive parents for many years as a child. I tend to go a little ballistic when talking about it.<br /><br />But I did want to share an article originally published by Carole J. Anderson on this subject back in 1991. Carole, an early member of Concerned United Birthparents (CUB), was also a professional social worker for many years and studied child abuse among adoptees. The title of her journal article is “Child Abuse & Adoption." You can read it in its entirety at http://pages.uoregon.edu/adoption/archive/AndersonCAAA.htmRavennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-27306619411703296862011-11-08T21:50:00.993-05:002011-11-08T21:50:00.993-05:00I must have missed something in this comment threa...I must have missed something in this comment thread. Not sure how it got to the open adoption blogs but, since the subject has been raised...it's something I've blogged about (blogging only for Adoption Awareness Month).<br /><br />Most of those blogs (that I've seen) appear to be by moms who have placed/relinquished anywhere from a matter of months to a few years ago. There may be a couple (like the one mentioned above) where the child is of lower-primary age.<br /><br />They haven't lived the thick and thin of an open adoption, nor have they endured an open adoption's closure... which can happen at any time, with no recourse.<br /><br />Over two decades ago, if the internet had existed, I'd probably have been one of them. I still thought open adoption was "forever," still assumed I'd been told the truth, and was willing to overlook many things that just didn't gel.<br /><br />(Call me a Pollyanna, but I still believe, when open adoption is based in equality and free from coercion, it can work for the children. I.e. Dawn, the mom whose story you posted a few weeks ago, and others who have managed to put aside possessiveness. But only time will tell how the kids feel.) <br /><br />I also believe that family preservation, when moms are parentally fit (as is typically the case with the demographic that's targeted for open adoption) should be paramount.<br /><br />I suspect that these bloggers likely have never read/seen/been told that adoptees often view placement/relinquishment as abandonment. Based on my experience and that of other open-adoption first-moms I've known, I would suspect their pregnancy counselors told them their children would be grateful, glad and better off adopted. The view that one is an instrument of Divine intent is very common... pushed by CPC counselors.<br /><br />Been there.<br /><br />I discovered otherwise (about adoptees perceptions, etc.) only with the advent of ready-internet access, around 1998 -- and was horrified.<br /><br />Many of these bloggers appear also to be highly-religiously influenced, as was I at the time. (I.e. "God's plan for families doesn't include single motherhood.)<br /><br />I can't look at their blogs often because I wonder which of these moms will wind up with closed adoptions -- in months or years. Which ones will lose all contact with their children? Which will be required to adhere to increasingly absurd parameters in order to maintain contact (i.e. - required to hide later-born siblings, be silent in the face of trust betrayals, etc.)?<br /><br />Though peers (adoptive parents) are holding each other more accountable now than they did years ago, I am certain some of these open adoptions will close.<br /><br />I wish I could say differently.<br /><br />When they do, I hope these women are able to find support somewhere.<br /><br />I hope the children involved are able to navigate the difficulties presented by a closed open adoption.thttp://amonthofawareness.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.com