tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post3909876493418087704..comments2024-03-27T20:48:39.389-04:00Comments on [Birth Mother] First Mother Forum: How to arrange an ethical adoptionLorraine Duskyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-37400198237768716902016-01-02T18:41:28.307-05:002016-01-02T18:41:28.307-05:00Thank you for responding. I don't personally q...Thank you for responding. I don't personally qualify for Abrazo but am interested in learning more because of your comments. Your book is high on my ballooning to-read list. Thanks again.Call Me Nicolenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-14134485355349081212016-01-02T18:11:51.621-05:002016-01-02T18:11:51.621-05:00I wrote more about Abrazo and ethical adoptions in...I wrote more about Abrazo and ethical adoptions in a recent book, Hole in My Heart: a memoir and report from the fault lines of adoption. <br />Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-10390646856403297622016-01-02T18:08:18.026-05:002016-01-02T18:08:18.026-05:00Abrazo only does fully open adoptions, and from wh...Abrazo only does fully open adoptions, and from what I can tell is a major advocate for the prospective mother. Some prospective adoptive parents may get their nose out of joint because of this. A comment from the Abrazo site:<br />Just A Thought<br /><br />When I first contacted Abrazo, I was VERY leery about what "openness" meant. My husband and I were not comfortable at all with giving intimate information about ourselves to a complete stranger. After speaking with some of the employees at Abrazo, we agreed to learn more about the open adoption process and tried to keep an open mind. I have to say that we grew so much through their orientation weekend, and the extra reading that we did ourselves. I think the biggest factor was actually hearing from some mothers who had placed. We eventually got to a place where we did feel more comfortable with openness and it ended up being the best decision we ever made, because we still have wonderful contact with our son's mother to this day! Whatever your preferences are, you have to find an agency that you are comfortable working with, and I think the agency has to know they can expect the same from their adoptive parents. I'm deeply sorry if you felt offended by how you were greeted, but maybe it was best that you were both honest about your expectations from the beginning?Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-50109817429290736042016-01-02T15:57:36.969-05:002016-01-02T15:57:36.969-05:00Thank you thank you thank you for this post and al...Thank you thank you thank you for this post and all of these responses. I am not the person who asked the original question, but I could have written most of it. I *had* decided to adopt, but after reading and reading and reading, I'm reconsidering.<br /><br />I've learned so much from blogs like these so far -- for example, I had no idea that BCs get changed in open adoptions. Call me naive, but I'm dumbfounded. I can't imagine why I would want to change a BC. <br /><br />I will not belabor this group with all my questions, but since folks seem open to share, I'll put these out there:<br /><br />Lorraine, I saw some bright red flags on the Abrazos site and am curious why you recommend them (recognizing that you did so with a grain of salt). <br /><br />MD Herbal, do you know of anything like this private foster care concept in the DC area? This is the first I've seen mention of any coordinated way to do this. I'd like to learn more.<br /><br />To the woman who submitted the original question, I'd love to get in touch somehow. You're the first person I've found who is looking to adopt and thinking about these questions seriously enough to reach out for answers you might not want to hear. It might help us both to share what we learn along the way.<br /><br />Again, thank you to everyone here.Call Me Nicolenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-86243035135507820492015-12-09T22:19:21.244-05:002015-12-09T22:19:21.244-05:00This article is spot on! Find a private situation ...This article is spot on! Find a private situation or adopt from foster care. Adoptions agencies don't make money if an adoption doesn't take place. That right there is unethical. I run Support for Expectant Mothers, Single Mothers and Struggling Families and can't tell you how horrible these adoption agencies are. I have seen them canceling rent checks because the expectant mother questions if she is doing the right thing. I advocate that expectant mothers who are leaning more towards adoptions to consider respite, power of attorney and/or temporary guardianship first. There is no reason to rush an adoption. The prospective adoptive parents go into it agreeing to help these mothers and knowing the baby/child/children may go back to their mother. Some of these couples don't even want to adopt, they just want to help. It's like private foster care without the corrupt CPS. This type of situation gives all adults time to make the right decision and develop a relationship/family. If you don't trust the first mother to be a part of your family, why should she trust you with her child? Adoption doesn't need to take place immediately, it can take place if/when all parties are ready. I am helping a family now. The expectant mother was kicked out of her parents home. A family who has several children took her into their home, helping her through the pregnancy and will help her once the baby is born. The expectant mother has asked them to be grandparents to her child. This family gets to expand their family by adding a daughter and grandchild and mom gets to raise her baby and have a family and support system. Adoption agencies are only out to make money and make sure an adoption takes place. But many expectant mothers go to adoption agencies because they think it is their only way to get any help. There are many people and organizations that are able to help but don't have the marketing budget that corrupt adoption agencies have. MD Herbalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04133137961885453686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-32790752234714840592015-10-31T09:01:05.455-04:002015-10-31T09:01:05.455-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16571106249207987994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-78597466191652589092015-10-31T07:47:39.027-04:002015-10-31T07:47:39.027-04:00Kaisa, I am not sure what kind of response you are... Kaisa, I am not sure what kind of response you are trying to elicit from me but will try to answer some of your concerns even if my answers are not what you anticipate:<br />You wrote: " is it ok for women to abandon their responsibility to raise their babies?"<br />Put another way, is it ever ok for a mother to make her own free uncoerced choice to surrender? I have to say that if it is her own choice, not somebody else's, yes, it is ok. I do not believe in an absolute responsibility either for mothers or fathers to raise their children in all cases, if they make other safe arrangements for others to raise a child they cannot or will not raise. No, they should not be pushed in this direction by the adoption industry or anyone else, but it should be one of the choices that is there if it is the best choice for them.<br /><br /> Is it something I did or would do? No. I had no career plans and in fact never had a career, and I very much wanted to keep my child. But I do not feel I have the right to make that choice for other women nor to stigmatized mothers who surrender of their own free will because they have other priorities in life. I feel the same way about abortion, I would never have one, and am personally uncomfortable with the subject, but do not feel it is up to me to make that choice for other women. I do not think it morally wrong for a woman to choose to surrender her child for adoption, if she has been really given and considered all the alternatives in an honest and not coercive fashion and still chooses to surrender. It is not what I would do, but I do not feel it is my place to condemn her either as some do. I do not think there is one "right" choice for every woman faced with a crisis pregnancy. I think either pressure to surrender or pressure to raise the child if that is not what the mother truly wants, if she is,as you say, "unwilling" is not a good thing. I do not think my experience gives me the right to tell others what they should do. I can only tell my individual story and let others draw their own conclusions from that story, apply what fits to their lives, and leave the rest.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-48079299639598369152015-10-30T21:31:10.900-04:002015-10-30T21:31:10.900-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16571106249207987994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-78105154081674798432015-10-30T19:26:59.698-04:002015-10-30T19:26:59.698-04:00I have met people who wished they were raised by a...I have met people who wished they were raised by anyone other than their bio parents, because those parents were abusive or otherwise lousy. I have also heard of situations where the raised children of a birthmother considered the one surrendered to be the lucky one, again because of terribly dysfunctional mother and family. Many people are unhappy with their lot in life, whatever it is.<br />The fact is nobody gets to choose their parents, adoptive or bio, and we all had to live with whatever we got. Of course adoptees have the extra heartache of an alternate family and reality that actually could have been and that makes it all the harder.<br /><br />Men opt out of the responsibilities of fatherhood all the time, it is not up to me to decide if that is right or not; it happens. Mom has to go to court for child support, but you can't get blood from a stone so sometimes it is futile.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-2711968331510090462015-10-30T16:50:45.849-04:002015-10-30T16:50:45.849-04:00^^I'm the author of that article, and I stand ...^^I'm the author of that article, and I stand by it. Every adult adoptee should have the right to decide whether or not to continue the legal relationship determined for them by others, typically without his/her input or consent.<br />kayehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14867231123908961933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-92148372673510782492015-10-30T14:20:21.684-04:002015-10-30T14:20:21.684-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16571106249207987994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-17940893384523833112015-10-30T09:31:12.254-04:002015-10-30T09:31:12.254-04:00Good point, Leigh. But I did add "real" ...Good point, Leigh. But I did add "real" because I can't help it: once you give birth you are someone's real mother. And that is the language a lot of people use. EVERYone should get used to the idea and not wince when they hear the word. the Positive Adoption People (PAPs) did a number of everyone with their milked down language that obfuscates reality. <br />Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-65782913661914172872015-10-30T06:43:12.033-04:002015-10-30T06:43:12.033-04:00Leigh, you have it all right. Any agency that char...Leigh, you have it all right. Any agency that charges tens of thousands of dollars for a healthy white newborn is suspect, especially if they promise they can get one to order right away if the price is right. No matter how much they protest that they operate ethically, the big price tag is the proof that they do not. My son and his wife are adopting two siblings from foster care, and rather than costing a fortune they are getting a subsidy which will go into a college fund for the kids. They wanted nothing to do with the domestic newborn market nor with international adoption as it now exists. If you really want ethical adoption, you need to expand your vision of what kind of child you could love and provide a stable home for. If you will only accept a white newborn, your avenues for ethical adoption today are sorely limited.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-74589307597529494792015-10-30T00:00:12.928-04:002015-10-30T00:00:12.928-04:00Dear Hoping to Adopt, as an adoptee, I thank you ...Dear Hoping to Adopt, as an adoptee, I thank you for doing your research. I would say that if the adoption process costs more then a few thousand dollars, that this is not a true " non profit agency" reasonable court expenses, fees for background checks, homestudies, etc don't cost tens of thousands of dollars. If your agency has a different price for the adoption of Caucasian babies vs other races, it is not a true non profit agency. Find out what they mean by open adoption. Discuss what you want and discuss it with the prospective mothers you speak to. Speak to adoptees, read books by adoptees and first families, not just adoptive parents or adoption professionals. Look outside of your agency for adoptees and parents to speak to. The agency will only introduce women and adoptees who are adoption cheerleaders. Know that raising an adopted child is not the same as raising a natural child. One is not better then the other, but it is different. <br />Also, I don't recall seeing this addressed, but the reason Lorraine includes REAL in the tag line, is because the included words are ones that are often used in search engine searches and they wanted to capture more of those searches to be directed to the forum. That's why Birth Mother is included, etc. For the record, I am not anti-adoption, I am pro- family preservation and change to the current adoption industry. No one should be profiting from adoption. It should be a social service situation, not a multimillion dollar industry. babies are not business. Severing a family should be a last resort. make sure that the prospective mom you work with does not sign surrender documents until at least a week after giving birth, and is well aware of her right to change her mind. Ensure that the father has been notified of his rights and plans to also sign a surrender - any question of this should be considered a red flag-RUN!! If the agency requires that you pay for medical costs, ask lots of questions. Today there should be no reason why a woman would not be covered for pregnancy if she is provided her full options and resources. The agency should not be paying or directing her medical care but coordinating her benefits for her own insurance, parents' insurance or public assistance/ Medicaid. Too often women who waver on their decision to surrender are coerced with the daunting future of debts for medical care that would have been covered if managed correctly. You can direct as ethical an adoption as the current conditions allow, and your child will benefit the most. After all, adoption should be about the best interest of the child. <br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01910615843409542287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-54466283040417085342015-10-29T22:38:11.084-04:002015-10-29T22:38:11.084-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16571106249207987994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-35886043280645193982015-10-29T22:28:40.960-04:002015-10-29T22:28:40.960-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16571106249207987994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-65310872850175120762015-10-29T20:11:42.043-04:002015-10-29T20:11:42.043-04:00Those mothers who surrender in order to pursue per...Those mothers who surrender in order to pursue personal goals, IF they are fully informed and have a real choice after being offered all options are probably better off with that choice, as are their children in the long run. There does need to be real uncoerced choice, without heaping guilt on those you may feel made the wrong decision. Being raised by a biological mother who feels she was forced to keep a child against her will and give up her dreams can end up with the mother deeply resenting that child. Children sense this, and sometimes the resentment is not even subtle. This is not an ideal circumstance for a child either, any more than being surrendered is. Some situations have no easy, one size fits all solution, and not all adoptees are damaged by being adopted, although many are.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-16808403515018253272015-10-29T18:58:20.864-04:002015-10-29T18:58:20.864-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16571106249207987994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-24704710715924002822015-10-29T17:53:53.536-04:002015-10-29T17:53:53.536-04:00Spot on, Joe Mama. My daughter has two moms and t...Spot on, Joe Mama. My daughter has two moms and two dads, and we are all "real." I don't use birth mom, instead preferring either names or just "mom and dad." I use "other" only if trying to be clear that I'm not talking about me. No adoptee should ever have to defend how they view their family dynamics. My daughter's mom and dad are part of her, part of who is she, where she came from, who she will someday become.... such an intimate and absolutely REAL part of her.Tiffanynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-37787374470215853252015-10-29T17:41:24.218-04:002015-10-29T17:41:24.218-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16571106249207987994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-19495455659688916992015-10-29T17:25:08.398-04:002015-10-29T17:25:08.398-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16571106249207987994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-83213992302279336782015-10-29T17:06:03.460-04:002015-10-29T17:06:03.460-04:00Such a great post, Lorraine! While I support adop...Such a great post, Lorraine! While I support adoptee rights and major changes to how adoption currently works, it is what it is at the moment. So education is really key when it comes to the public and people looking to adopt.<br /><br />The the person who wrote you the question, I would add this as my greatest advice (as an adoptive parent): don't depend upon others to do the right thing, but instead choose to make sure that you do the right thing yourself. At the end of the day, as the person adopting, it is on you to make ethical choices, such as maintaining an open adoption even when they aren't legally enforceable. You owe it to any child you adopt to educate yourself (which it sounds like you are doing) and make ethical decisions even if an agency is telling you otherwise (like encouraging you to minimize contact after birth, for example, or to use them as an intermediary instead of having direct contact). It will take a long time to make changes in the adoption industry, but in the meantime, people involved can still make ethical choices and thus have an ethical adoption in regards to the aspects within their control (sealed records are not a choice adoptive parents can not make- I tried and there is no option).Tiffanynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-20370105793890852772015-10-29T13:32:38.231-04:002015-10-29T13:32:38.231-04:00I was surprised at the amount of insensitive comme...I was surprised at the amount of insensitive comments to the author's article. <br /><br />However, if the commenter CaledonianSmokeball is correct, the UK has a much more humane and reasonable law:<br /><br />"In the UK adopted 'children' have the right to see their original birth certificate and any papers relating to the adoption once they are 18 years of age." (There is more, which I haven't included.)<br /><br />So perhaps there they just don't understand the ramifications as we do in the US, of having a birth certificate sealed for life, and an adoptee's "next of kin," who have the automatic power of attorney to make medical decisions for them if the adoptee is incapacitated, etc., along with the other obvious powers that legal adoptive parents have. Should those be life-lasting? Or should the adoptee choose to sever those powers after he or she is an adult, shouldn't the law allow it?<br /><br />I think that every adoptee, well every person, has the right to know their origins and who their parents are. It seem like one of the most elemental human rights, doesn't it?new and oldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17362285131091164702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-39513286341995685412015-10-29T01:53:48.050-04:002015-10-29T01:53:48.050-04:00As a reaction to "adopted infant cannot be pa...As a reaction to "adopted infant cannot be party to the decision to surrender nor to stay with the biological mother." it makes perfect sense. Maryanne does not shatre the idea that the wishes and opinions of the adoptee are a factor of great importance in determining whether an adoption is ethically justified or not, she does imply that disregarding the adoptee as a party to the adoption "contract" is fine with her, provided the adoptee is a young child. Theodorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14634057445114838262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-76028072681036421172015-10-28T21:34:27.439-04:002015-10-28T21:34:27.439-04:00@'Kaye. It seems like you are taking something...@'Kaye. It seems like you are taking something of a leap here. I don't see Maryanne saying, or even implying, that you or any other adult other adoptee should be denied the right to annul their adoption. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com