tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post495749555090334922..comments2024-03-27T20:48:39.389-04:00Comments on [Birth Mother] First Mother Forum: While gay marriage is the talk, how about adoptee rights? Lorraine Duskyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-11266829526187707232013-04-03T08:36:13.532-04:002013-04-03T08:36:13.532-04:00"Campbell started the insults. " Who is ..."Campbell started the insults. " Who is so inferior to all you out of the closet bio mothers"". <br /><br />Obviously that was a reaction to Lorraine's statement that in-the-closet men and women stay hidden "simply" to spare themselves "embarrassment". I understand why some might feel insulted by that. No doubt it wasn't intended to be, but it does seem rather condescending and dismissive. <br /><br />Is more shaming really a good way to encourage people who are still in the process of grappling with fear and/or shame to come out of the closet?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-40413803121831945172013-04-02T09:43:14.924-04:002013-04-02T09:43:14.924-04:00@Robin:
"Perhaps, I was naive. I had hoped t...@Robin:<br /><br />"Perhaps, I was naive. I had hoped that these types of forums would be safe and supportive places for those of us who were badly hurt by adoption, but I often find that they are not."<br /><br />That is what I have found. They are full of landmines where you have to dodge the, "you are only the birth mother", "suck it up", "you made your bed now lie in it", "get therapy", "should have kept your legs closed", "you are not my mother", "your child is so much better off without you and/ we think we are so much better than you", (the list goes on and on) comments that have shut me down. <br /><br />I have put up with enough mental abuse/ mental torture from the adoption industry and those who fuel them. No more. PhoenixRisinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07655924058370540037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-78984013829515471012013-04-01T19:13:09.144-04:002013-04-01T19:13:09.144-04:00Nancy came up with Primal Wound THERAPY to explain...Nancy came up with Primal Wound THERAPY to explain her adopted daughter's problems. She has never said it is anything but a theory. Unfortunately, PW has been used by people who don't want to or can't take responsibly for their own lives and actions to blame adoption for their problems. Adoption may, of course, be the root of the problem, but nothing cures a problem like kicking some authority figure's ass to the curb.<br /><br />Therapy is the biggest enemy of adoptee rights today. I'll carry that farther. It is the biggest enemy of any kind of social change in the country today. As long as you look at your problem as "individual" or "personal" rather than systemic rot, nothing much will change. Gay marriage wouldn't be the stupid issue it's become if therapists had kept their fingers out of queers heads and tried to make them fit in. Same with womyn. Amerikkans are a very stupid. I swear, anybody born after 1970 sucks off the state and its agents.Marley Greinerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11118325693446170769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-1473601553702709322013-04-01T16:32:59.736-04:002013-04-01T16:32:59.736-04:00Marley: And Campbell has done what other than &quo...Marley: And Campbell has done what other than "be around for years." <br /><br />I write to my legislators. Campbell has "been around." <br /><br />Campbell started the insults: <br />"who is so inferior to all you out of the closet bio mothers." <br />and<br /> "It's true though, adoptees can't get no respect on this blog unless we're sucking up to you [Loraine] and Jane and spouting primal wound crap. Some things never change."<br /><br />That sounds to be like a slam against every adoptee who doesn't think being adopted is fine and came out of the process without being hurt by it, and a nasty jab at both Jane and Loraine. <br /><br />Primal wound crap? If I say I fell down and my leg hurts, but you fell down and your leg doesn't hurt, that makes me "full of crap?" <br /><br />Nice.Viktorianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-65823401091749775452013-04-01T15:47:23.714-04:002013-04-01T15:47:23.714-04:00JO wrote:"I personally don't think adopte...JO wrote:"I personally don't think adoptees do speak up enough, but I understand why. There's still something very dark and unique about adoption."<br /><br />I agree with you, but what you have to understand is that what adoptees are supposed to think, and how we are supposed to feel about adoption, was decided for most of us before we were even born. There is very little support and often outright hostility towards those of us who say that adoption was not the perfect, seamless, trauma-free experience it was supposed to be. The therapeutic community, in the U.S. at least, by and large accepts the prevailing cultural belief that adoption is just another way to build a family. <br /><br />Even at blogs such as FMF and other family preservations blogs, there are regular snide comments directed towards "woundies" and those who agree with the primal wound theory. Perhaps, I was naive. I had hoped that these types of forums would be safe and supportive places for those of us who were badly hurt by adoption, but I often find that they are not.<br /><br />And I totally agree with what Adoptomuss wrote at 7:25am. It is naive to not think that gay marriage will lead to an increase in the demand for adoptable babies.Robinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-18400544850473627022013-04-01T13:24:57.439-04:002013-04-01T13:24:57.439-04:00Relax, adoptomuss, there will not be another baby ...Relax, adoptomuss, there will not be another baby scoop. That was a unique confluence of factors that no longer exist. There are not the numbers of young women of childbearing age that us baby boomers had, there is not the complete lack of access to contraception and abortion for the unmarried that existed in our era, and there are more avenues on the internet for expectant mothers to get much more information than we ever could.<br /><br />It seems you oppose gay marriage because gays want to adopt. I think they should have the same chance, no more and no less, than straight people to adopt. I feel the laws on who can adopt and how need to be much more stringent, but that should apply to all, not just rule out gays and lesbians. Many gay people have already adopted without being legally married, so it is not really going to change that much.<br /><br />Yes, adoption laws need to change in many areas, and there are still too many young moms who should keep their kids being talked into surrender. A lot more needs to be done for family preservation in cases where the Mom just needs some sensible unbiased counseling and a little help and encouragement to get the tools she needs to raise her child. But this has nothing to do with gay rights or gay marriage.<br /><br />I do not want any mother to have to feel like I did either, or be pushed into a surrender she does not want, but I do not see opposing gay marriage as doing anything to achieve that goal.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-32096396838043400312013-04-01T12:51:42.352-04:002013-04-01T12:51:42.352-04:00I agree - Lorraine want to spearhead the campaign?...I agree - Lorraine want to spearhead the campaign? I would but I live in England though I was born in Phoenix, AZAllihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00459656259800244712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-73669951371584153952013-04-01T12:49:53.241-04:002013-04-01T12:49:53.241-04:00I agree with thia completely. It has taken 41 yrs ...I agree with thia completely. It has taken 41 yrs of living for me to give myself permission to say out loud here, on facebook, twitter or to folk I know that as an adoptee I am not ok with the unnatural removal of a baby from his or her mother. While I am learning to live with this pain by engaging with it through therapy, I would spare future babies this åain by advocating abstinence, contraception or abortion for unwanted pregnancies. A birth mother has a pre trauma of relinquishment self - a newborn is left with feeling like half of a whole - something he or she will then HAVE to battle with for the entirety of their life.<br /><br />Thank you Lorraine for your encouragement and support.Allihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00459656259800244712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-52511281462580768372013-04-01T12:39:48.801-04:002013-04-01T12:39:48.801-04:00Amen to that!Amen to that!Allihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00459656259800244712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-54960914315290268362013-04-01T09:45:38.353-04:002013-04-01T09:45:38.353-04:00I see two competing strains; one, a call for all a...I see two competing strains; one, a call for all adoptees and natural mothers to come out of the closet and demand adoptee rights, and another opposite one that only people who fit a fairly narrow point of view are wanted and really welcome.<br /><br />What happens here when someone like Campbell, Kathleen, some adoptive moms. Liloleme ,me, many others who do support adoptee rights, but have different stories or different views on peripheral issues or are not sufficiently anti-adoption comment? Other commenters, not necessarily the moderators, do their best to shame them and drive them away. How much support do you think this gathers from the many who read here but do not comment?<br /><br />Not all mothers nor all adoptees feel the same way about their own situation. I suspect some have no interest in adoption reform at all. It is not just fear of their adoptive parents nor fear of exposure of mother's "shame" that keeps all silent. <br /><br />Further mocking, personal attacks, and alienating those with different views is not the way to win friends and supporters.<br /><br />maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-61742326968321677312013-04-01T07:45:36.434-04:002013-04-01T07:45:36.434-04:00I totally get what you are saying Lorraine. It rem...I totally get what you are saying Lorraine. It reminds me of our good ol' NHS here in the UK paying for boob-jobs on young girls because they are psychologically damaged by having a small chest. I have often wondered what my GP would say if I consulted him with psychological damage of adoption separation. There seems to be more recognition and acceptance for having small boobs/women being socially pressured to look a certain way than there has ever been for adoption issues. I personally don't think adoptees do speak up enough, but I understand why. There's still something very dark and unique about adoption. JOnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-26258907170788455532013-04-01T07:25:16.245-04:002013-04-01T07:25:16.245-04:00I'm so afraid that gay marriage will mean more...I'm so afraid that gay marriage will mean more adoption. Marriage means children, and gay couples cannot conceive naturally, so where will their children come from? And it's not PC to say anything against them. There are ads all over showing gay couples with children, saying how great they are as parents, because they really want the children, no accidental pregnancies. <br /><br />I'm afraid of another baby scoop. I don't want more children to grow up feeling the way I do.adoptomussnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-84919402303627040472013-04-01T06:35:39.300-04:002013-04-01T06:35:39.300-04:00Viktoria, Lorraine wrote "Now we need adoptee...Viktoria, Lorraine wrote "Now we need adoptees to step out of the sidelines, to stop waiting until their adoptive parents die, to come out and say now: I WANT TO KNOW MY TRUE HERITAGE" , followed by this ". . . now we need every first mother who ever thinks about her baby to come out of the shadows and say: We do not want anonymity. " <br />Campbell responded "None of it is as simple as telling us adoptees to stop waiting for our adoptive parents to die before stepping out of the sidelines, as you put it."<br />She didn't imply that Lorraine's situation was simple or that Lorraine "knows nothing". She was responding to Lorriane's instructing adoptees to "stop waiting until their parents die" - AS IF doing that is always going to be that simple for everybody. It seems to me that she felt that Lorriane was not taking into account the complexities of OTHER people's situations. <br /><br />"And what is so wrong with being compared to her natural mother? Most of the mothers who come here if they have a relationship with their daughters love to find similarities. If that comment was an insult, it's in the eye of beholder."<br />Nice try, Viktoria, but it doesn't work. Context is all. <br />Nobody reading your comment would be dumb enough to think you meant that remark as a compliment.Lilolemenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-46639521099656580982013-04-01T00:03:46.406-04:002013-04-01T00:03:46.406-04:00Campbell has been around for years. I'd ask w...Campbell has been around for years. I'd ask what has "anonymous" done. Can't post your own name, huh? Are you afraid?Marley Greinerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15184124024369071862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-19034960840656939512013-03-31T20:54:44.486-04:002013-03-31T20:54:44.486-04:00Who is Campbell anyway?
I find her attitude tow...Who is Campbell anyway? <br /><br /> I find her attitude towards her own mother and this blog confusing. <br />Campbell's comment was just to tell Lorraine off once again and say, oh my it is so much more complicated than you know (because you know nothing). If she or lilome who is so cute knew anything about Lorraine you would know she understands just how complicated this is for everyone. Campbell Heinz didn't come here to make an intelligent comment, it is just to criticize and be a "breath of fresh air" for one of her friends. Frankly, my dears, we just don't give a damn.<br /><br />And what is so wrong with being compared to her natural mother? Most of the mothers who come here if they have a relationship with their daughters love to find similarities. If that comment was an insult, it's in the eye of beholder.Viktorianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-29574504691272922612013-03-31T09:00:56.213-04:002013-03-31T09:00:56.213-04:00In response to Lorraine's comment about Danny ...In response to Lorraine's comment about Danny and Rosie O'Dopter, they disgust me beyond words. <br /><br />This big mouth can go to Ireland and know all about her roots, as documented, but speaks of the mothers who's children she is in possession of like they are trash who would "ask her for money". That is all she can muster up about the women who lost while she gained. <br /><br />Her precious "money" may dry up one day, just like her career has. She used a lot of that "money" to purchase children that were not hers from baby brokers, then dehumanize their mothers. <br /><br />Her brother is all for "gay rights" but thinks adoptee's have no rights to their OWN histories, generics and heritage? Disgusting hypocrite. Stacynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-75605209391604995422013-03-30T21:35:20.038-04:002013-03-30T21:35:20.038-04:00The impetus to grant homosexuals rights they did n...The impetus to grant homosexuals rights they did not otherwise enjoy was not accidental or random. Read AFTER THE BALL (Kirk - Madsen)... Adoptees and natural mothers would do well to adopt the same tactics. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-25439258723270356632013-03-30T19:56:17.873-04:002013-03-30T19:56:17.873-04:00Anon said asked if Campbells's mother is "...Anon said asked if Campbells's mother is "in the closet"? <br />Campbell's mother can't be completely in the closet or Campbell wouldn't have been able to say her mother is a nice lady and they get along quite well. For some more than others these things take time. <br />It's great when mothers come out publicly, but that should be their decision and made within their time frame.<br /> Forcing people is wrong.Lilolemenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-92083706214684321672013-03-30T17:19:03.516-04:002013-03-30T17:19:03.516-04:00Excuseme, doesn't Campbell come here to poke u...Excuseme, doesn't Campbell come here to poke us in the eye? Is her mother in the closet? And unlikely to lift her hand to sign a petition for adoptee access? Campbell is the typical mixed up adoptee who doesn't know what she wants. <br /><br />When she says Lorraine does a disservice to everyone else--as if Lorraine's reunion and life story is uncomplicated? Seriously you say this? Campbell doesn't care about working for change when she writes stuff like this--"when you ignore how complicated unwanted pregnancy, adoption and reunion really are, to tell us adoptees to stop waiting until our adoptive parents die." If everyone waits nothing will ever happen. Good luck there, girl.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-3579464860691536562013-03-30T16:52:29.690-04:002013-03-30T16:52:29.690-04:00Robin, I agree the conversation becomes theoretic...Robin, I agree the conversation becomes theoretical. I also agree that they believe that the love they feel is enough. It is not. For anyone to actually hear that tho' and wants to apply it to what they are doing it goes way beyond theory and becomes more like a child sticking their fingers in their ears and say ing 'I DON'T HEAR YOU, nowayyourwrongiamright" Because if they believe otherwise they may not be able to get what they want the way they want it. A blank slate child so they can be mommy or daddy and make a political point at the same time.dpennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-91751833214529033822013-03-30T13:15:43.105-04:002013-03-30T13:15:43.105-04:00Campbell, for me another adoptee, you are a breath...Campbell, for me another adoptee, you are a breath for fresh air! I love your comments and your take on things. Unfortunately, your opinions and posts seem to upset a lot of people who seem to think thinks are black and white. <br /><br />Viktoria, wow! "Yes, it is so complicated--that adoption stuff--that we should all shut up and say nothing." Huh? Where the heck did she EVER say that? Your reply was over the top and only serves to shut her down... simply because she sees things differently?? <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-47830335009676774112013-03-30T12:39:58.576-04:002013-03-30T12:39:58.576-04:00There's a lot of double thinking going on rig...There's a lot of double thinking going on right now. Obama and his goon squad suddenly promote gay marriage. It's all political kabuki. It makes them look "progressive" which they certainly are not. The truth is federal courts have already killed DOMA and there is no need for a SC review, but it looks nice on the elite prog resume (while seriously life endangering queer issues go unaddressed.) <br /><br /> But the important factor that nobody is looking at is that gay marriage is soft social issue the deflects from what the Obama administration is up to in the Middle East(war, oil, guns, and wasting money on special interests that bankroll pols) and in Europe--bankster thefts. Think Cyprus. It's coming here soon enough <br /><br />And anonymous: those men in high heels could beat the crap out of you. Ever hear of the Stonewall Riots? Unfortuantely, when queer became gay and Gay, Inc co-opted the fight, the fight died. <br /><br />I think it's dangerous to compare gay marriage to adoptee rights. They are unrelated, and the more the federal government gets involved in any issue, the more mucked up it becomes. <br /><br />We have already won, but as usual, leggies need to catch up. If people would give one undivided clear message--the restoration of the right to unrestricted access--we'd have many more free states.Marley Greinerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11118325693446170769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-91631538149221481872013-03-30T09:31:17.815-04:002013-03-30T09:31:17.815-04:00Amen, Robin, those comments--the child is loved, e...Amen, Robin, those comments--the child is loved, ergo anything is permissible--totally misses the point. <br /><br />BTW, that odd reference in my comment above refers to an old post:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.firstmotherforum.com/2009/05/orphan-trade-gay-marriage-and-open.html" rel="nofollow">The Orphan Trade, Gay Marriage and Open Records Legislation</a>Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-59624824377185152802013-03-30T09:15:32.430-04:002013-03-30T09:15:32.430-04:00dpen wrote:"I do have a problem with ANONYMOU...dpen wrote:"I do have a problem with ANONYMOUS creation of children to "build a family" the lack of true thought on the impact of the person created is horrible. Its dismissed, minimized and thought to be know big deal."<br /><br />These conversations can become so theoretical that people forget these are real individual human beings who are being created. Separate individuals with feelings and needs whose lives are being profoundly affected and in many cases damaged by these practices.<br /><br />And a common response when it is pointed out that these are not inanimate objects being created is "but children created this way are loved". But that's not enough and it misses the point.Robinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-59689103725429551962013-03-29T18:51:28.349-04:002013-03-29T18:51:28.349-04:00I have no problem with "assistive reproductiv...I have no problem with "assistive reproductive technologies" with ANYONE . Be it gay or straight. I do have a problem with ANONYMOUS creation of children to "build a family" the lack of true thought on the impact of the person created is horrible. Its dismissed, minimized and thought to be know big deal. It IS a big deal. Just ask many adoptees, donor conceived that are living it as adults now. <br /><br />Now fully open information for a child that needs a family..whole different thing. But as in hetro adoption that is NOT a first choice. <br /><br />Lorraine..I know of one situation where a lesbian couple got married...thought it was great! Had Three children using anonymous sperm and got a divorce. These children remain very much loved and are all full sibs but are lacking their genetic information that is their RIGHT...HUMAN RIGHT to know where they came from. I am pretty sure MANY whether gay or not would fight me on that. <br /><br />The other things that bugs me..Is that many gay people CAN have their own with out all the anon stuff...just don't want to.dpennoreply@blogger.com