tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post5681354597968372037..comments2024-03-27T20:48:39.389-04:00Comments on [Birth Mother] First Mother Forum: Adoptive parents encourage daughters to give up their babiesLorraine Duskyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comBlogger67125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-62853697007899943732016-03-24T14:36:38.613-04:002016-03-24T14:36:38.613-04:00Some of the "gritty/nasty" comments &...Some of the "gritty/nasty" comments & name calling aside, I wish this blog were required reading for all those contemplating adoption, raising an adopted child or considering relinquishment of a child.<br /><br />It's that good.<br /><br />Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. Its great if you are into living an authentic life. And you are not going to be able to live fully and grow without experiencing some things which challenge your perspective. <br />HareKrishnanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-50565858809612279292013-04-16T16:22:46.426-04:002013-04-16T16:22:46.426-04:00Clarification: I'm the one writing a memoir to...Clarification: I'm the one writing a memoir to follow up on the one published in the seventies, Birthmark.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-79444650108244697372013-04-16T15:45:00.153-04:002013-04-16T15:45:00.153-04:00I was adopted and I think that God meant for me to...I was adopted and I think that God meant for me to be with the 2 people I called Mom & Dad. I couldn't of had better parents had I hand picked them myself. My bio Mom put me up for adoption, as she had 2 kids at home & her husband was in Korea. I have my O.B.C. I know she doesn't want to be found.<br />After searching for over 30+ years, I am giving up. God knows the truth & adoption is the only way at times. I obtained my OBC when my son was born in 1979.God Bless YOU ALL, MaureenMaureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17955053516402646272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-48115426368904597762013-04-16T08:30:40.281-04:002013-04-16T08:30:40.281-04:00It looks to me that there's a lot of "cre...It looks to me that there's a lot of "creative interpretation" going on on FMF. I'm not sure how much of the misunderstanding is deliberate, but some of it sure is "appalling", such as Buck Wheat's hateful and unjustifiable jinxing of commentator Bell. <br /><br />What I understood from Bell's first comment was that she would't be willing to raise this hypothetical grandchild herself (her choice to make. She isn't telling other people that they shouldn't if that's what they feel is right for them), but she is saying would be prepared to support and help her daughter to parent independently: "I will help her find resources and point her in the right direction". <br />Allowing someone to make their own decision and offering them support and guidance to make that decision work is not abusive. <br /><br />I wish I'd that kind of support, respect and understanding when I had my child, instead of being immediately isolated and shoved off to a grim religious home for inconveniently pregnant young women. <br />If I had we would never have been parted.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-62110326469252638972013-04-16T04:44:10.498-04:002013-04-16T04:44:10.498-04:00That's right anonymous, abandoning babies has ...That's right anonymous, abandoning babies has been a much loved and popular pastime for centuries. Everyone was doing it. ;)foundlinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00379823341637915169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-43576356504381636382013-04-15T20:19:11.473-04:002013-04-15T20:19:11.473-04:00@Fluffy:
"Stacy, with all due respect, I was...@Fluffy: <br />"Stacy, with all due respect, I wasn't talking to you. Speaking of control, it's Lo's blog (and Jane's), not yours. It's also her manuscript, not yours."<br /><br />With all due respect, you commented on a forum where the public can read what you wrote and this is a free country, thanks. This is also not YOUR blog either, now is it and who said anything about Jane's manuscript being anyone but hers?<br /><br />I commented on people such as the likes of you trying to control the narrative of a maligned and dehumanized population of natural mothers and I find THAT to be quite "appalling". <br /><br />Why don't you not worry about how other people feel about their own experiences and let them deal with it the way they want, on a blog that is aptly titled FMF. Perhaps I am in the wrong place and I certainly would not want the blog owners to think I am trying to take over their blog... lol!!! Stacynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-5983064894254936732013-04-15T18:21:20.754-04:002013-04-15T18:21:20.754-04:00For those interested in the history of abandonment...For those interested in the history of abandonment and foundlings in the last 2000 years, read "The Kindness of Strangers" by John Boswell. This is a carefully researched and well-documented history of child abandonment which was widespread, not a tiny minority of aberrant families.<br /><br />http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/K/bo3633447.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-52172488939283337282013-04-15T16:25:07.622-04:002013-04-15T16:25:07.622-04:00Thanks for your kind words, I don't want to up...Thanks for your kind words, I don't want to upset anyone,<br /><br />Even though you have a son and no daughters, you may well have the opportunity to help a young woman and her child. I've known several cases where a pregnant woman's parents were unwilling or unable to help her and the father's parents took her and her baby in. I have a lot of admiration for them.Jane Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09715622112694146946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-53590006411217581122013-04-15T12:13:28.619-04:002013-04-15T12:13:28.619-04:00Stacy, with all due respect, I wasn't talking ...Stacy, with all due respect, I wasn't talking to you. Speaking of control, it's Lo's blog (and Jane's), not yours. It's also her manuscript, not yours. Fluffynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-9811879147561648892013-04-15T11:03:37.395-04:002013-04-15T11:03:37.395-04:00Fluffy: Thanks for your thoughtful comment. If it ...Fluffy: Thanks for your thoughtful comment. If it had not been FMF, it would have been something else. The incident I know about (and I am sure there were others) occurred many months ago. I have no idea exactly when, or what was going on at the blog then, and indeed, it may have been related to something one of the principals wrote. <br /><br />Our message is counter to the general aura of "good" that permeates adoption today--so many nice couples who want a baby! and these people do are against it!--and that attitude may shock and surprise those who feel that adoption will always be available to them. And who are these awful people saying that is not the case! <br /><br />Some people get upset when they read What We Think About Adoption (a permanent page that both Jane and I wrote with much thought), for instance, as did Single Infertile Female. BTW, Single Infertile, who was considering adopting an older girl from foster care when we had the run-in with her, adopted a newborn a few months ago, apparently from a tribe. I saw it on Facebook, with pictures. Everybody is so happy. <br /><br />So there you go.<br /><br />I hope I am nearing the end of the FINAL draft, which is one reason I try to cut back on the number of blogs. My memoir will be published one way or another. Change is upsetting and encounters opposition because it is a different way of thinking about the accepted norm. <br /><br />Thank you for your concern and encouragement again. xxxLorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-50782364246284157222013-04-15T10:43:12.159-04:002013-04-15T10:43:12.159-04:00@Fluffy:
"Why not give it a running start an...@Fluffy:<br /><br />"Why not give it a running start and re-envision the blog so that the "appalling" does not bury the book."<br /><br />In other words, don't say anything that makes me uncomfortable because I will then have to come here, scold the commenters for their own feelings and call your blog "appalling". <br /><br />Nice try, but most of us are done being controlled and manipulated by control freaks. How "appalling"Stacynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-39029905112927150702013-04-15T07:49:46.225-04:002013-04-15T07:49:46.225-04:00Lorraine, you have published a number of excerpts ...Lorraine, you have published a number of excerpts from your book since I started reading your blog in 2008. There were one or two that were deeply moving. One in particular about Jane's dad that was heartbreaking. If the book is worth publishing, isn't it possible that your publishers know whereof they speak when thinking about the book's appeal? The problem doesn't seem to be the book; the problem seems to be FMF. Has the blog gotten more "appalling" as time has gone on? IMO, yes. Many of the commenters take an extreme position on adoption that runs counter to what most of the public believes--that adoption is an acceptable option for some children and that the focus should be on making it better, not on demolishing the institution or demonizing the motives of adoptive parents. A lot of vitriol around here is excused because "people are in pain" but that really amounts to excusing a lot of nastiness. I suggest you put yourself first and think seriously about whether your book deserves to see the light of day. Of course, it does. Why not give it a running start and re-envision the blog so that the "appalling" does not bury the book. Shouldn't your message get out? Fluffynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-5633318392591427682013-04-14T21:35:39.212-04:002013-04-14T21:35:39.212-04:00so, to prevent adoption is to prevent pain to the...so, to prevent adoption is to prevent pain to the first mother? How about preventing pain to the human born to the mother? How about realizing that there is not a baby born that cries///let me go...I WANT to be adopted.<br /><br />If there is a reason for others to raise a child to a fully functioning adult..as someone else said a "true adoption" a truelly needed adoption, not an adoption to provide an infant for people that want one...so be it. don't change their names, don't take "possesion" of them and try to brainwash them into thinking that they are chosen and need to salute their adoptive parents and be thankful for having a life.<br /><br /><br />Keep babies with their biology even if that mother is adopted and is 14 or 15...being a parent whether adoptive or not does make you resposible for the grandchildren if at all possible. I can;t help but think that there are some adoptive grandparents that do feel its ok to give their adoptive grandchildren away. After all they got what they wanted in the adoptee...a family and all and the grandchild at that time does not have the same familial connection that a "real" grandchild might have. Its not blood.dpennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-86261592090921510142013-04-14T20:52:51.023-04:002013-04-14T20:52:51.023-04:00I am well versed in the history of foundling homes...I am well versed in the history of foundling homes thanks. I did not select my nom de plume on a whim.<br /><br />These homes are another example of the actions of a tiny minority.<br /><br />Adoption prevents infanticide.<br />Inuit “adoption” practices are a precursor to modern day open adoption<br />Genetic relatedness is an iffy predictor of love. (so a baby is more likely to receive love and care from strangers that its own mother and family!!)<br /><br />Hilarious!<br />Back in the real world…..<br /><br />The vast majority of families provide love and support for their daughters who unexpectedly fall pregnant. Always have, always will. <br />Families that encourage the removal of their kin are the absolute exception to the rule and cannot be viewed as anything other than an absolute minority fringe. <br />foundlinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00379823341637915169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-82418503319992083852013-04-14T18:27:40.127-04:002013-04-14T18:27:40.127-04:00Lorraine - I'm so sorry. Honestly what do peop...Lorraine - I'm so sorry. Honestly what do people think it would be like to place your child for adoption and then watch all the crap that goes on today in adoption.<br /><br />So sorry - hopefully others can see it is a book that needs to be published.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-7838465990514599102013-04-14T10:42:28.052-04:002013-04-14T10:42:28.052-04:00Lindsay: Thanks for writing, especially now, as I ...Lindsay: Thanks for writing, especially now, as I learned a week or so ago that some publishers turned down my book because they found the blog appalling and too tough. <br /><br />Depressing to hear but so it goes. Birthmark was turned down by several publishers because it was too outre for the times. Imagine a woman admitting she gave up a child for adoption! <br /><br />Just venting here in frustration today. Writers have feelings too. <br /><br />Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-39118037963616133822013-04-14T10:23:41.016-04:002013-04-14T10:23:41.016-04:00Yes, I'm saying loving societies sanction the ...Yes, I'm saying loving societies sanction the adoption of children as one way of ensuring children get the care they need, even if the practice is rare. For example, the Inuit have practised adoption for generations: "Historically, adoption was a common practice in Inuit society and continues to be widespread. 'In Inuit society, there is no stigma attached to being adopted. It is a practice… in which a child knows his or her birth parents and family members.' (Tungasuvvingat Inuit, 2008) Indeed, traditional adoption practices of Inuit have been legally recognized by northern governments (Pauktuutit Inuit Women of Canada, 2006:20)."<br /><br />Note that this is not adoption imposed by the colonial government, but an indigenous practice. In effect, this practice corresponds to what we call open adoption today. <br /><br />Also read Blaffer Hrdy, an anthropologist who talks a lot about alloparenting and the fact that genetic relatedness is an iffy predictor of love. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-83286606103851266722013-04-14T08:16:53.785-04:002013-04-14T08:16:53.785-04:00Foundling wrote:"Because that's what the ... Foundling wrote:"Because that's what the vast majority of normal functioning families have been doing for thousands of years."<br /><br />The history of foundlings and what happened to them is really quite bleak. Families exist in societies, with their own laws and customs, and if we are going back "thousands of years" infanticide was often the method of choice to deal with unwanted infants. And their have always been infants that different societies deemed unwanted. They were left on hillsides to die, thrown in rivers, and other gruesome fates.<br /><br />In the middle ages, monasteries and nunneries started taking in unwanted infants, raising those that lived to about age 14 when they could either join the order or leave. Foundling homes of sorts have existed since that time, but before the development of safe infant formula in the early 20th century, most of the babies died.<br />Many poor women left their own infants at baby farms to die and hired out as wet nurses for the wealthy.<br /><br />It was certainly not all happy "functional families" cheerfully welcoming a new "surprise" for thousands of years as you imagine.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-22802202329985413922013-04-14T06:16:58.710-04:002013-04-14T06:16:58.710-04:00"So anonymous you are saying that happy healt..."So anonymous you are saying that happy healthy, well functioning families encourage the removal of their kin? <br />I don't think so. "<br /><br />I don't think so either, foundling. That's not what anonymous is saying at all. <br /><br />No matter how you twist it, saying that "people who remain open to the adoption option, for whatever reason, are not of necessity emotionally and psychologically unwell" is NOT the same as saying that "happy healthy, well functioning families encourage the removal of their kin".Bettynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-8808184607114090772013-04-13T23:18:29.455-04:002013-04-13T23:18:29.455-04:00To I don't want to upset anyone,
"And w...To I don't want to upset anyone, <br /><br />"And why isn't Lori in contact with her first family? I'll admit I don't watch the show, so I don't have much background information. But, wouldn't it be helpful to Lori to have her first mother around during this hard time in her life?? Seeing as how the first mother has gone through something similar?!?!"<br /><br />I don't watch the show either, so I don't know the reason. But, not all first mothers are like the mothers on FMF. <br /><br />After being contacted, some first mothers want to stick their heads back in the sand and attempt to bury their memories again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-46707953757448115962013-04-13T23:07:16.401-04:002013-04-13T23:07:16.401-04:00Some of the "gritty/nasty" comments &...Some of the "gritty/nasty" comments & name calling aside, I wish this blog were required reading for all those contemplating adoption, raising an adopted child or considering relinquishment of a child.<br /><br />It's that good.<br /><br />I wish to add that once upon a time I'm not sure what my reaction would have been if our daughter were to come home young, unwed & pregnant. Loving her would remain constant, but if she were only 14 or 15 at the time? Yikes! I'd like to think my course would have been one of support, regardless of her decision. It would have nothing to do with jealousy ( I have already experienced pregnancy) and nothing to do with lacking a biological link ( she is every bit our own!) and everything to do with what commentor Pam said: adoption has blessed us beyond measure; how could we summarily dismiss that as an option?<br /><br />But now....should it happen? I will fight tooth and nail to keep that baby with her, should she desire to parent. I will empower her to believe that she can, with support, parent successfully regardless of the hurdles or those who judge. I would never want her to face the hurt and loss that so many First Mothers have experienced on this site if I had a way to prevent it.<br /><br />Should she wish to make an adoption plan? I will have to support that too ONLY after exhausting all other possibilities and having her read this blog (and a few others) first. Actually I just hate this very paragraph I just typed; but how could I respect and support one choice and not another?<br /><br />This would be true for both of our children.<br /><br />I worry this makes me an adoptive hyprocrit in some ways ( I mean shouldn't I be waving the "Go Adoption" banner?) but it also makes me a Mom. Doing the best we can by our children, given the circumstances and constraints of the problem before us/them.<br /><br />I do know this: we would face it together, united with the strength of a family.<br /><br />Lindsay AP<br />Lindsaynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-60186769488288124742013-04-13T17:20:18.203-04:002013-04-13T17:20:18.203-04:00So anonymous you are saying that happy healthy, we...So anonymous you are saying that happy healthy, well functioning families encourage the removal of their kin?<br />I don't think so. <br /><br />Only a tiny fraction of daughters give away their babies. The vast majority are surrounded by love and support and the arrival of a new family member, although unexpected perhaps, is a welcomed event. Because that's what the vast majority of normal functioning families have been doing for thousands of years. <br /><br /><br />foundlinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00379823341637915169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-45716698262459523202013-04-13T15:54:11.829-04:002013-04-13T15:54:11.829-04:00As an adoptive mom, I gotta say that there's N...As an adoptive mom, I gotta say that there's NO way I'd try to force my daughter* into giving her child up for adoption. And I would certainly never allow her to face the world as a single mother with no family support! Who the heck are these people??? And why isn't Lori in contact with her first family? I'll admit I don't watch the show, so I don't have much background information. But, wouldn't it be helpful to Lori to have her first mother around during this hard time in her life?? Seeing as how the first mother has gone through something similar?!?!<br /><br />And, Bell, really? I don't mean to criticizes a first mother on a website meant for you, but that seems really cold. I mean, I'm all for helping children understand the realities of the world, but to leave your child (adopted or not) to fend for herself and a new baby seems cold and unfeeling.<br /><br />When I first started reading FMF, I was really defensive. I felt like every time something negative was pointed out about adoption...that it was a personal attack on me and my life. HAHA! How wrong and stupid I was! Now, I view FMF as a way of trying to understand about a part of adoption that ISN"T talked about much, and I appreciate that (and the work that's happening here). <br /><br />So, adoptive parents who come here, stick around, and maybe you'll learn something!!!<br /><br />*I currently have a son, so the daughter here is hypothetical*I don't want to upset anyone.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-16005308696347702022013-04-13T14:52:09.011-04:002013-04-13T14:52:09.011-04:00Stacy..Talking about the innocent child here and i...Stacy..Talking about the innocent child here and if your really thinks its bull shit that those are the ones whose needs a paramount then you have just proved me right.<br /><br />If the mothers who are responsible for this child get it then they WILL get the respect and compassion from their children. I have respect for my adoptive parents, I have respect for my 1st mother...but when i was a child my biofamily did n0t respect me enough to keep me, my adoptive family got me because they could not have children. Those are the facts. At that point i needed a hell of a lot more then respect and compassion. Not bull shit at all my dear.dpennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-11483941032170060572013-04-13T14:43:10.922-04:002013-04-13T14:43:10.922-04:00Thank you sara! A baby is a blessing, not a cur...Thank you sara! A baby is a blessing, not a curse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com