tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post6715479837991624352..comments2024-03-27T20:48:39.389-04:00Comments on [Birth Mother] First Mother Forum: Giving up your baby before he's bornLorraine Duskyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-63270355592191296262017-09-01T23:52:57.470-04:002017-09-01T23:52:57.470-04:00No because then the baby becomes property of the s...No because then the baby becomes property of the state and belongs to no one for awhile. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08692390478492894893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-73247283130526154142014-12-29T04:40:01.213-05:002014-12-29T04:40:01.213-05:00Thank you, darlin'. You guys help me enormous...Thank you, darlin'. You guys help me enormously.MrsTarquinBiscuitbarrelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00479830264284065679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-40519483233751910422014-12-25T20:43:01.729-05:002014-12-25T20:43:01.729-05:00Mrs. TQB: Whenever I hear your story I am practic...Mrs. TQB: Whenever I hear your story I am practically moved to tears. Somehow--and it does happen in families now and then--someone becomes the recipient of all of family's grief and tsouris and you were it. If our friendship can help, I am so glad. Happy Holidays to you and yours. <br />Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-82451773926719009412014-12-24T14:10:48.949-05:002014-12-24T14:10:48.949-05:00margaret59, my bfamily told me repeatedly that sin...margaret59, my bfamily told me repeatedly that since they'd "brought me into this world, [they had] the right to take me out of it." Therefore, I was expected to expresss gratitude that they hadn't killed me... which on a number of occasions they very nearly did.<br /><br />Part punching bag, part beast of burden, I tried to rationalize what they said for decades. When (after several years of self-funded psychiatric care that my bparents usually ignored and occasionally belligerently asserted that I "didn't need") I was thirty, I was expelled from my family of origin. That's nearly half a lifetime ago. For the last decade of my life, until her death, my mother never addressed a word to me. The birth announcements I mailed, all three, were never acknowledged.<br /><br />So the forced expression of "gratitude" that foster and adopted children are pressured to gush rings very true to me.<br /><br />May all of FMF friends experience a 2015 that presents less pain, fewer triggers, and wherever we can healthily find it, more joy. Or at the very least, the absence of the gasping flashback of some experience, somewhere, that we wouldn't wish on anyone.<br /><br />Thanks to all who post here for all the insights, pain, and survival that you've shared. Love & mercy (as the song by Brian Wilson goes) to everyone from MrsTBB. xxooMrsTarquinBiscuitbarrelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00479830264284065679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-13885823497101518592014-12-22T23:18:50.005-05:002014-12-22T23:18:50.005-05:00Yes, and thank you!Yes, and thank you!dpennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-68350199972091394382014-12-22T17:50:44.800-05:002014-12-22T17:50:44.800-05:00Oh bless you Jay. You are so right.Oh bless you Jay. You are so right.Cherrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-32347064714358852282014-12-22T16:44:57.711-05:002014-12-22T16:44:57.711-05:00Perfectly said. Perfectly said. momengineernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-48947616015965541012014-12-22T12:11:55.100-05:002014-12-22T12:11:55.100-05:00dpen, very well said. I will print out your comme...dpen, very well said. I will print out your comment for my son (adopted from foster care) to read one day, when he is a little older. I want him to appreciate who he is, and the fact that he ended up in the foster system had nothing to do with him. Thank you.Jay Iyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01592280612055255470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-33153094039055313342014-12-22T12:09:53.900-05:002014-12-22T12:09:53.900-05:00"Almost's" comment pretty much sums ..."Almost's" comment pretty much sums up my own thoughts on this matter. Forget pre-birth consent, I am appalled that in most states, new parents are given no more than 48 hours after the birth to sign away their parental rights. <br /><br />Yes, the foster system, which typically takes in children of parents who have had serious lapses of judgment, nonetheless gives the parents at least a year to try and rehabilitate. And yet we enforce "voluntary" relinquishment before the new parents have had a chance to even absorb what has happened?!! It is outrageous. <br /><br />I believe any "voluntary" relinquishment must be followed by at least a six month time frame before rights are permitted to be signed away. I do not believe a child being returned to his/her biological family after a six month (or even a year) absence is nearly as big a price to pay, in terms of loss of stability / bonding for the child, as an unnecessary permanent severance from their primary (biological) family.<br /><br />The current procedures are in place to give the adoptive parents a quick assurance of permanency, which ultimately serves the adoption industry as the adoptive parents fuel it. Even on the rare occasion that there truly is a biological parent who with a free heart and mind wants to relinquish, I do not believe it is in the best interests of the children to immediately sever the bond that is the fundamental basis of who they are.<br /><br />I also do not believe prospective adoptive parents should be permitted in the delivery room. Not even if the mother asks for it. I believe the child, who did not ask to be born, deserves the dignity of time alone with his/her roots, maximizing that connection to the extent possible. Jay Iyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01592280612055255470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-44260860798594864562014-12-21T17:09:26.710-05:002014-12-21T17:09:26.710-05:00margaret59
When i was younger I use to agree with...margaret59<br /><br />When i was younger I use to agree with everyone that yes i WAS lucky and inwardly believed that Its all I deserved. Never felt I deserved much of anything. After all I was "lucky" to have been fed,sheltered and loved. so don't ask for anything, don't expect much more..after all I was already getting what I deserved...food and shelter. Lived with that attitude for MANY years and its just recently that I truly felt that I AM good enough to have received all of that and much more. I was talking to a friend about adoption(she has a DIL that is adopted) and she stated to say something to the effect that I should feel grateful for what I had" after all you coulda been..... " I stopped her in her tracks and said "I deserved it just like you did, just like any child does and I won't be made to feel less then because it took 2 years to get it. That is NOT a reflection on me, its a reflection on my bfamily and a society that let it happen." She appeared to have gotten it.<br /><br />I also think that anyone that is adopted hears the "but they took you in" comment and yes its worse when its foster care.<br /><br />The bfamily did what ever they did to lose the child and the aparents signed on to become parents. Period....our job is to grow up to be productive humans beings. Nothing more, nothing less and we don't "owe" anyone just because our parents made the desions they did. I do appreciate my mom and dad and my bmother for who they are and the fact that they did try to raise me as healthy as they knew how. they were wonderful people and I am thankful for that. My thankfullness tho is more like any child is thankful for having decent parents NOT because they "took me in" They chose that because they could not have children...period. If they could I would not have been adopted by them. As far as my bfamily...well I get the times, I get the reasons but still hurt that it had to happen to begin with. Even when you are "taken in" you are considered less then in many peoples eyes. <br /><br />dpennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-86251608655167929342014-12-21T00:42:55.358-05:002014-12-21T00:42:55.358-05:00Pre-birth consent is revolting and akin to slavery...Pre-birth consent is revolting and akin to slavery. Buying a person. But I am getting sick and tired of hearing how wonderful it is to give a foster child a home. Yes, in some cases, it is necessary. But, we who are foster children are also told how "Grateful we should be". Even when, our parents died! How lucky you are that someone "took you in". In other words, you are worthless unless someone takes you in. Basically, you are human refuse. margaret59noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-15358404078379985822014-12-20T13:24:27.351-05:002014-12-20T13:24:27.351-05:00I agree wholeheartedly. Pre-birth consent is 100% ...I agree wholeheartedly. Pre-birth consent is 100% in the interest of the adoption industry. Denise Emanuel Clemenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10982725113569943337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-14924426912293456042014-12-20T09:58:02.191-05:002014-12-20T09:58:02.191-05:00My best advice to women who are thinking about ado...My best advice to women who are thinking about adoption but not sure is NOT to have any contact with an adoption agency before they give birth, and only if they are sure by their own choice that adoption is what they want. Explore ways to keep the child first. If you are young, still in high school or college, really talk to your parents about the temporary help you will need to keep your baby, and what they can do to help out for a few years. They will be glad they did, my parents were sorry until they died that they did not. DON"T hide your pregnancy, get unbiased prenatal care not associated with an adoption agency, if your doctor or other person suggests they can arrange an adoption, run like hell in the other direction! You are already a mother forever, and will bear scars and deep regret if you let anyone push you into a choice you do not really want.<br /><br />Sometimes in extreme circumstances, long-term drug addiction, mental illness, coming from an abusive family, , or truly not wanting the child, adoption is the lesser evil and better choice, but for most of us that was not so. The worst tragedy is one that did not have to happen. Adoption agencies WILL be biased towards adoption. Don't sign anything while pregnant, including agreeing to foster care. That was my big mistake. Once you hand your child over to anyone there is much you must prove to get him back. If you walk out of the hospital with your child, and you have a home to go to, you do not have to prove anything. maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-60879661473894591192014-12-19T20:22:06.083-05:002014-12-19T20:22:06.083-05:00Pre-birth contracts are baby selling. period. They...Pre-birth contracts are baby selling. period. They used to be illegal for that reason.<br /><br />mothers cannot make a decision about a child they have not yet seen - a child who is just a fantasy, or a child who they may have been thwarted form bonding with. many expectant moms in matched adoptions get very enmeshed and are encouraged (read brainwashed) to think of and address the baby they are carrying as 'their" baby, not "my" baby.<br /><br />This is not akin to buying merchandise. What it is analogous to is asking loved ones of a patient who is terminal to order his coffin and cemetery plot. there is a reason funeral salesmen are not allowed to solicit their wares in hospitals! <br /><br />Mothers need Time To Decide: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=843584Mirah Ribenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13626873757236976251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-37825056067426438372014-12-19T16:47:24.949-05:002014-12-19T16:47:24.949-05:00IMO, parental rights should not be allowed to be t...IMO, parental rights should not be allowed to be terminated for at least a year following the birth of the child. With this in place I suspect that adoption rates would drop to near zero. The thought of pre-consent is insane and should never be considered.<br /><br />Pam and Cherry, my story (BSE - 1969) resembles yours in many ways. Imagine how much different and better our lives would be if our children had been born in today's era! gailnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-31048134853314806492014-12-19T11:14:19.973-05:002014-12-19T11:14:19.973-05:00So, I'm guessing this pre-birth consent comes ...So, I'm guessing this pre-birth consent comes with irrevocable consent as well? Not only do you sign away your rights to your child before they actually exist in this world, but you can't undo what you've done once you've given birth. We might as well go all the way and give AP's and adoption agencies everything. Oh, and we will call these laws "progressive" and spin it to say they "protect expectant mothers and their unborn children from the interference of...." I guess you can fill in the blank of who pre-birth consent is protecting an expectant mother and her unborn child from. <br /><br />These laws are insane. Adoption agencies are behaving like any business doing everything they can to survive by influencing legislation to make the marketplace favorable to their operations. Pro-adoption fanatics who continue to ignore how women and children are being treated as product rather than living, breathing human beings only have themselves to blame when adoption receives the negative publicity that it does. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07165737918653065179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-3965079395127009252014-12-19T10:09:35.965-05:002014-12-19T10:09:35.965-05:00As an adoptee, I am always very disgusted at the m...As an adoptee, I am always very disgusted at the means used to take us away from our mothers and families. I take pains to educate everyone I can about the horrors that the industry still perpetuate today. The adoption blinders are on, and its very hard to get past them unless you YANK them off! Sympathy always seems to fall on the troubles the adoptive parents went thru to create the family, while no one thinks twice about the losses that led that child to be torn from their original family. There truly needs to be a push towards National Legislation to defranchise adoption as an industry and to move it back to be the social service need based service it was meant to be. They need to stop the adoption tax credit- except when involved in domestic adoption VIA foster care system. Why we are paying our citizens to steal children from other cultures while our own age out of foster care without ever feeling the safety of a family is beyond me. I know that more than 50% of all orphanages worldwide will disappear if these tax credits go away. They were only built to house a product during the highs of the adoption supply and demand in so many of these countries. Take the money out of adoption and there will be reasonable court costs, licensing (for foster to adopt), background check fees that can be tax deductible. We need to stop giving states/municipalities 'bonus $' for facilitating adoptions as well- family preservation should always be the main priority for foster care, unless severe neglect or abuse is requiring removal of the child for its safety. But then there should be clear guidelines of what steps can be made to re-educate and/or get clean that a parent can complete so that they do not lose their parental rights. But in no case should infant adoption be considered the first option for an unplanned pregnancy, or the BEST option for the child. It should be a last resort. No way should crisis pregnancy hotlines be answered by or associated with any adoption agency. State employees should be referring to state foster care with possibility of adoption if the mother is educated on all resources and still thinks this would be in her and her baby's best interest. NO way should there be pre-birth contracts or choosing of parents. Way too much emotional coercion for an alreadyhormone overloaded mother to be. And mothers to be should speak with adoptees to understand the long term ramifications of being adopted outside of their original families. Not 'birthmothers' paid for referrals or adoptive parent panels where they parade their 'happy' adoptees for display.Reneenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-84421955539583877582014-12-19T04:34:23.968-05:002014-12-19T04:34:23.968-05:00Forgot to say - I was persuaded to write those let...Forgot to say - I was persuaded to write those letters, to the non-existant adoptive parents, while I was 8 months pregnant.<br /><br />The actual adoptive parents weren't selected by the social workers for at least another 4 months (much to my shock, I thought everything would be ready for my son).Cherrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-20663025432084401202014-12-19T03:08:25.494-05:002014-12-19T03:08:25.494-05:00I've been mulling this post over on and off th...I've been mulling this post over on and off throughout the day. Not just the sheer insanity of it, but what sort of practical solutions might have sufficient appeal to prevail.<br /><br />Here's what I'm thinking: In the domestic foster care system, parents can become licensed to be foster-to-adopt parents, meaning that they are licensed foster care providers who also have an approved homestudy for adoption. They care for children who are not legally free. If the kids can go back to their biological families, great. And if not, then the kids stay with the family that has been fostering them all along.<br /><br />In the foster care system, this gives kids stability and also gives parents time. <br /><br />I often feel that in the domestic infant system we have, where mothers "voluntarily" relinquish parental right, there is a rush to either do it before birth or do it very soon after so that the child isn't in limbo--living with a foster family and then having to transition to yet another family. <br /><br />If parents seeking to adopt infants could be licensed foster parents, then first mothers could be given more time--to be sure they are OK with their decision, to see if there are supports first mothers could have to actually parent--without leaving the child in limbo. <br /><br />It would also allow time to find the biological father, do paternity testing, and give the biological father time to decide what he wants to do.<br /><br />Imagine if parental rights couldn't be permenantly signed away until 6--12 months *after* the child's birth? And imagine if the potential APs were licensed foster parents who could provide care during that time.Almostnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-59558626336225308062014-12-18T19:54:13.501-05:002014-12-18T19:54:13.501-05:00Pam, I'm responsible for your disappearing com...Pam, I'm responsible for your disappearing comment. I drafted a post and intended to give Lorraine a chance to look at it. Somehow I posted it instead of leaving it in drafts. I caught it a few hours later and took it down. My only excuse is that I had been to the dentist, had taken a pain, pill, and my jaw hurt like hell.Jane Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09715622112694146946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-13611064260613334642014-12-18T18:47:09.684-05:002014-12-18T18:47:09.684-05:00Giving birth changes everything.
The metamorphosi...Giving birth changes everything. <br />The metamorphosis from individual to mother is beyond profound, and permanent. It is unimaginable to anyone who hasn't experienced it.<br /><br />Pam, I can relate to a lot of what you wrote.<br /><br />When I went into labour, in the middle of the night, I woke no-one. I sat on the sofa for as long as I could, trying to stave off the moment when I woke someone because I knew then that the process of me and my son being separated from each other would begin. I still remember those moments so clearly, even three decades later.<br /><br />Getting pregnant women to sign anything permanent regarding their unborn child is coercive. No doubt. <br /><br />On a side note, my social worker had me writing letters to the nervy adoptive parents, allaying their fears and reassuring them I was just a vessel for them, despite the fact they had not even been chosen at that point. I realise it was a letter to myself that I was being asked to write, telling myself I was just a vessel, ensuring I knew that. Pure brainwashing. <br /><br />Cherrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-81389483718632440902014-12-18T16:48:12.182-05:002014-12-18T16:48:12.182-05:00Pam--the other day I saw an Ethiopian adoptee on T...Pam--the other day I saw an Ethiopian adoptee on Tv with the Flip the Script message. Now she's grown up and educated, and so of course she is asked if she were better off than....still being in Ethiopia. A hard question but the woman answered beautifully. Instead of speaking about her particular story, she urged that more be done to keep families IN ETHIOPIA together. She spoke of Family Preservation. Having the option of pre-birth consent is absolutely insane and every state with a moral center ought to see that and outlaw if forthwith. Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-32212138381876051832014-12-18T16:09:33.355-05:002014-12-18T16:09:33.355-05:00There should never be binding pre-birth surrenders...There should never be binding pre-birth surrenders. It is too coercive and wrong. Pam, loved your comments. When I was pregnant with Michael I listened obsessively to the Doors first album and especially the song "The End" with the lyric "this is the end, my only friend, the end. This is the end. I'll never look into your eyes again." I thought of my unborn child. I refused to surrender so my child went into foster care, but he was never with me, and in the end, I gave up and signed.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-50153964610424794112014-12-18T15:03:52.951-05:002014-12-18T15:03:52.951-05:00Pam--I felt the same way--a mixture of relief (tha...Pam--I felt the same way--a mixture of relief (that the pregnancy would be over) and grief (because my child would be gone). <br /><br />I just read an ad for babies in the local newspaper: pre-approved loving families," and "financial and emotional support" for the pregnant woman. Et cetera. <br /><br />Adoption is a business. Pre-approved relinquishments grease the wheels of that business. <br /><br />Last night on Survivor one of the finalists said she learned when she was 15 she could not have children, and if she won, it meant that she and her fiance would be able to start a family. There is no doubt what she meant because in fact she referred to it earlier. I felt for her, but I realized that it meant that she would now join the many people who want to start a family with someone else's baby. Her tragedy, unless she adopts from foster care, will turn into someone else's lifetime tragedy too. Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-76933217825354090222014-12-18T14:30:36.477-05:002014-12-18T14:30:36.477-05:00I just wrote a long comment, but it seems to have ...I just wrote a long comment, but it seems to have disappeared. Shoot! I don't feel like reconstructing it, so bottom line: NO pre-birth relinquishment! No infant adoption! Provide help to the mother so she can raise her own child. Failing that, guardianship rather than adoption. All should be transparent. Rather than huge adoption fees for international adoptions, use the money to support children and their families in their own countries. I know it's complicated, but adoption is being driven by the desires of would-be adoptive parents, not the needs of children. Pamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08653853519675824740noreply@blogger.com