tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post8747627356266033173..comments2024-03-27T20:48:39.389-04:00Comments on [Birth Mother] First Mother Forum: The lure of lucre drives child 'welfare' policies in Russia and the USLorraine Duskyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comBlogger87125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-16608538924699088252013-03-15T02:14:27.871-04:002013-03-15T02:14:27.871-04:00@Cindy - Well post your info on here then and not ...@Cindy - Well post your info on here then and not a moniker, coward. Debating is NOT stalking. If you had a life you wouldn't be so full of hate. I pity you. <br /><br />@Moonstar - Someone (one of you perhaps?) else posted that on the other blog using the moniker CC. However, I did go on there after reading your post.... That other blog's author routinely goes on on others. More hostile than the two of you.CCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-17948095656293054342013-03-15T02:04:52.682-04:002013-03-15T02:04:52.682-04:00@Moonstar -
The comment you cut and pasted was n...@Moonstar - <br /><br />The comment you cut and pasted was not posted by me. Nice try though. CCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-44576664570857447772013-03-01T19:50:49.565-05:002013-03-01T19:50:49.565-05:00Really? REALLY? I cannot believe some of the comme...Really? REALLY? I cannot believe some of the comments on here. Those accusing the blog authors and others of being bitter and twisted, great projection! Perhaps you need a looking glass to see where the bitterness is coming from.<br /><br />Adopters are not entitled? BAHAHAHAHAHA!! Please! Of course the majority of adopters (Note: not all) feel entitled or adoption wouldn't be a multi billion dollar for profit industry that openly preys on young women for their babies while PAP's stay purposely ignorant to the issues out there.<br /><br />ENTITLEMENT is what DRIVES adoption. If people didn't feel entitled to another mother's child we wouldn't see the coercion and numbers of adoption loss. There wouldn't BE an industry. There would hardly be any child in foster care and there would be no one salivating over newborns. What utter rot adopters don't feel entitled! That has to be the biggest lie adopters tell themselves to help them sleep well at night. Oh and Lorraine might not read blogs by other adopters but sadly I have and save a handful of decent adoptive parents, most dripped and ooze with their entitlement and how they feel they deserve another families child yada yada yada.<br /><br />And this:<br />"The thing is, you don't know adoption. You really don't. You know bitterness and pain and you can't see past that. I've read your stories and others like it. You know what I see? Women who feel like life cheated them. Women who (at a mature age) had to make a choice...and did. But, they never were able to be at peace with that choice. But, your life doesn't suck that badly. "<br /><br />WOW lady! How dare you tell a person what pain is? How DARE you presume to tell another human being what their life is? How do you know what else has been in their life? How do YOU know what they have suffered?? Just because they have a blog that writes about ONE aspect of their life, does not give you the right to be judge and executioner. YOU HAVE NO CLUE about anything so perhaps you need to back off and walk away from the keyboard. You don't know adoption. You don't know pain, you don't know life... so how does that feel? you like it? No, I didn't think so.<br /><br />This is a blog. It was not written for everyone to like it. Therefore the authors will have their opinion. You don't have to agree or like it but please, show some self resepct because the words of some of you here have only supported the view of entitled adopters and adopters who are really not that nice. You want to show adopters to be decent people? Well, first stop participating in unethical adoptions (which is all adoptions currently until reform happens) and two, stop attacking people on their blogs. Keep your promises, don't be threatened by the natural families, prove you really care about the child and not your own ego and the list could go on. When you show yourselves to be decent, empathetic and compassionate human beings that actually care then we will believe you, until then, well you get the picture. You are what you want to be but that isn't OUR choice so don't get so snotty when we show you the mirror and you dislike what you see. Mysthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07425550479815459790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-63251792063498829392013-03-01T09:56:01.066-05:002013-03-01T09:56:01.066-05:00CC said @Cindy - Nobody put a gun to your head and...CC said @Cindy - Nobody put a gun to your head and said give up your child.<br /><br />CC, that's SO old. It's also cheap and stupid.<br />I honestly don't know how you expect anyone to take you seriously.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-61282244230571255542013-03-01T08:59:06.151-05:002013-03-01T08:59:06.151-05:00@Cindy
CC has some sort of agenda, she posted thi...@Cindy<br /><br />CC has some sort of agenda, she posted this comment at Mirah's Family Preservation blog.<br /><br />"I read every bit of it, especially the part where you never give an answer to the question "Are you anti-adoption?" And that "I don't like labels" nonsense does not cut it. Your bitterness towards those who have adopted, your desire to deny couples fertility coverage just to save money (with that "no one owes you a child" excuse), and your bitterness and ridicule of couples who have infertility problems says it all. You seem to think women who can conceive and do so irresponsibly are superior to those who are productive and cannot, just because they wanted to work first and have security for that child they wanted."<br /><br />This proves that her concern is for APs or people who can not conceive, not for children or natural parents. She also seems to be one of those people who likes to think of adoption, as a way of keeping women off welfare when she says "do so irresponsibly." She does not seem to know about the Adoption Tax Credit, or has turned a blind eye to it. But since she has been on these blogs she should have known about it by now, so my bets are that she has turned a blind eye.Moonstarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-61927106304482347952013-02-28T18:12:07.986-05:002013-02-28T18:12:07.986-05:00Hey CC, no, noone held a gun to my head. (You all ...Hey CC, no, noone held a gun to my head. (You all looovve that one, now don't ya?) The deceitful liars who stole my son decided to got the fraud route and con me out of my infant when I was vulnerable, scared and unsure of what to do. Care to exchange information so we can discuss this face to face, or are you too much of a COWARD and like to hide behind your computer screen to defame someone? <br /><br />No way in hell do you not have some other vested interest in adoption besides what you claim to have. The way you stalk natural mothers on this site for days on end for the sole purpose of dehumanizing and degrading us speaks volumes. How utterly creepy. Get a life, why don't you and get out of ours. <br /><br />Some will rob you with a six-gun,<br />And some with a fountain pen. <br />~Woody Guthrie.Cindynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-59082345479925885842013-02-28T12:28:49.346-05:002013-02-28T12:28:49.346-05:00CC, an unfortunate and vulgar choice of words dire...CC, an unfortunate and vulgar choice of words directed at Cindy, especially today, when any town could be Newtown. To quote "Pretty Boy Floyd," some rob you with a six-gun, others do it with a fountain pen. MrsTarquinBiscuitbarrelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00479830264284065679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-91988809470695280602013-02-28T08:55:17.898-05:002013-02-28T08:55:17.898-05:00@CC I absolutely did not say that all adoptive par...@CC I absolutely did not say that all adoptive parents feel entitled to someone else's child. <br /><br />However, when talking about adoption reform, inevitably someone brings up infertility. Infertility has no place in adoption reform discussion.<br /><br />It is not bashing adoptive parents to acknowledge that if the demand for infants was not so high much of the corruption in the system would end. So, in the US, we have a supply issue with an ever increasing demand in a system with not nearly enough regulation which people profit from. Adoptive parents who knowingly participate in coercion or corruption, in my mind, absolutely do feel entitled to another woman's child. If not, why would they choose to participate? <br /><br /> <br /><br />Leenburkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05006552239468993511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-33777131079386018742013-02-28T08:40:25.094-05:002013-02-28T08:40:25.094-05:00Diana wrote:"The thing is, you don't know...Diana wrote:"The thing is, you don't know adoption. You really don't."<br /><br />Actually, Diana, I think it is you who doesn't know a thing about adoption.<br /><br />1. If the natural mother did not carry and deliver the child, there would not be any child to adopt in the first place.<br /><br />2. I certainly hope you don't tell your adopted child(ren) that s/he doesn't know adoption. Because s/he is, after all, the one who is actually living BEING ADOPTED.<br /><br />I think it is you, Diana, who needs to learn about adoption.Robinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-69457548579583375102013-02-28T04:26:31.506-05:002013-02-28T04:26:31.506-05:00@Cindy - Nobody put a gun to your head and said gi...@Cindy - Nobody put a gun to your head and said give up your child. CCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-30895661675809027342013-02-28T04:14:39.813-05:002013-02-28T04:14:39.813-05:00@Jimmy - By the term "Trash," I came abo...@Jimmy - By the term "Trash," I came about that mainly because of the way my aunt's biological family acted when she tried to communicate with them. Slammed the door in her face. She was crushed. Yes I'll say trash, because trashy is how they acted towards her.<br /><br />You did NOT witness that event. I have NEVER adopted a child or even thought of it. I have a biological child, and before that a long time ago fostered a few. CCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-91600247287554919062013-02-27T22:51:21.126-05:002013-02-27T22:51:21.126-05:00...."you may find that your "allies"......."you may find that your "allies" in your fight to reform adoption are the same people who you find pleasure in bashing here."<br /><br />1stmama--You are most mistaken. I take no pleasure in bashing anybody, and if you had done more "research" you would learn that the staunchest opponents of reform in adoption in legislatures across the land are...adoptive parents! Joe Bruno, Steve Saland in New York; the late Senator John Tower of Texas, who made sure that a provision that would have unsealed the original birth certificates of all adoptess, as well as given first birth mothers the names of those tho adopted their children, and others whose names I have not remembered. Since I was deeply involved in lobbying to get this passed, and testified in Washington to a Senate subcommitee, I do take some enjoyment in pointing out that even Wikipedia notes that Tower was a drunken womanizer, to wit: "In 1989, Tower was President George H. W. Bush's choice to become Secretary of Defense. But in a stunning move — particularly given that Tower was himself a former Senate colleague — the United States Senate rejected his nomination. The largest factors were concern about Tower's personal life, in particular allegations of alcohol abuse and womanizing."<br /><br />And once in a while, adoptive parents can also be a strong proponent of that same change, as was true in New Hampshire, where I worked closely with an adoptive parent to unseal the original birth certificates, Lou D'Allesandro. Now that was a real pleasure.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-64693875986836685172013-02-27T22:31:15.781-05:002013-02-27T22:31:15.781-05:00The thing is, 1stmama your list of search sources ...The thing is, 1stmama your list of search sources indicates that you had tentatively decided on adoption and you were trying to confirm your decision and find an agency most compatible with to your wishes. <br /><br />Your research sources stood to benefit if you placed your child and had no incentive to tell you the downside of adoption.<br /><br />Thorough research would have included memoirs by adoptees such as B. J. Lifton and first mothers such as Lorraine. Then you might have read Nancy Verrier's "The Primal Wound", "Being Adopted by David Brodzinsky et al, and other books by adoption professionals. Attending meetings of the American Adoption Congress, Concerned United Birthparents, or Origins-USA would have rounded out your search. <br /><br />It's a shame you did not come to this blog sooner. It's not too late, though, to educate yourself. Read some memoirs, attend an AAC conference. You'll find these of great help as you navigate life as a first mother. Ask the adoptive parents to join in your research. It can only benefit your child, you, and the adoptive parents.Jane Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09715622112694146946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-57626110701212403352013-02-27T21:45:26.032-05:002013-02-27T21:45:26.032-05:00Clearly, my research was to help inform my decisio...Clearly, my research was to help inform my decision...not make the decision for me. <br /><br />I researched agencies, advocates, resources, and more. I took the time to know what I was getting myself into. <br /><br />BTW, the research Nadese cited is not solely about adoptive parents. But, also foster, step, and non-related household members (boyfriends...). 1stmamanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-52759898555353719632013-02-27T21:06:27.153-05:002013-02-27T21:06:27.153-05:00Thanks so much, Nadese for taking the time time to...Thanks so much, Nadese for taking the time time to find this NIH research.<br /><br />I bookmarked the site and printed the summary for my research collection.Jane Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09715622112694146946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-1643390042537120522013-02-27T20:44:52.195-05:002013-02-27T20:44:52.195-05:001stmama,
I am most curious about the research you ...1stmama,<br />I am most curious about the research you did that convinced you to give up your child. Please give us more details.Jane Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09715622112694146946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-82200950538880381582013-02-27T19:15:38.039-05:002013-02-27T19:15:38.039-05:00@Diana:
"The thing is, you don't know ad...@Diana:<br /><br />"The thing is, you don't know adoption. You really don't."<br /><br />WOW!! The absolute and astounding gall of some of these people. Just when I thought I had heard it all, here comes "Diana".<br /><br />You have got to be kidding me?! If anyone knows anything about adoption, it is a natural mother. We create, carry, give birth and needlessly lose our children to adoption, but we don't know "a thing about it?" OHHH, and we suppose YOU do, almighty adopter because you bought yourself a child that is not yours. Saintly, savior you know everything and we know nothing. Got it. Just another way to try to show your "superiority", perhaps? Nice try but no cigar, lady. THAT the problem, people like spewing drivel like like the aforementioned above.<br /><br />No one here is comparing losing their child to that of which you described, but losing a child to adoption is the single most traumatic, horrific thing any of us have ever lived through. It WAS like losing a part of me that I will never get back. How the hell can you sit there and act as if that is not something has the potential power to destroy one's life and/ or scar it forever? Oh, that's right, you gained from that loss so it is in your best interest to denigrate the hell some of us have lived in losing our children, needlessly. I choose not to read adopters blogs either. Funny, so many of you mosey over here to discount what we say? Wonder why that is? So very, very threatned, are we? Sure you are. Good. <br /><br />Do me a big favor and don't speak for me or any other mother and pretend you know what losing our children to adoption was like. It was not mine or any other woman's duty to make some infertile a mother. Unless you yourself have lived it, you have not one right to speak for any one of us. Go to hell. Sincerely. <br />Cindynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-65951814690035039922013-02-27T18:56:02.539-05:002013-02-27T18:56:02.539-05:00Sarah asked " Why are you adoptive parents re...Sarah asked " Why are you adoptive parents reading this blog and commenting?"<br /><br />Could it be that a good part of the reason is that it's an open blog and Lorraine and Jane want them to read and comment?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-43297032902951921852013-02-27T18:20:12.206-05:002013-02-27T18:20:12.206-05:00for jane edwards, i do agree finding statistics is...for jane edwards, i do agree finding statistics is not easy. I am sorry to say people social workers are allowed to lie. I asked for my file and there was not one true statement. soe the idea that a child was rescued, may just happen to be false. here is one report i found, stating the child is 8 times more likely to be killed in a non-biological home.<br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11927705nadesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16624552930797070394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-77789826921315519222013-02-27T17:34:22.421-05:002013-02-27T17:34:22.421-05:00How many times have I heard in real life "BUT...How many times have I heard in real life "BUT she promised me the baby" A pap calling a mother keeping her baby an awful thing, commenting n there own infertility and all they have been though, how they actually "hated "their" birthmother because she changed her mind, how they lament on the money they have spent on "this woman" and the horrible woman kept MY baby. The support they get from friends, family and society..."HOW could that little crack addicted whore" keep her baby...I AM BETTER THEN HER. I think its called a disrupted adoption. They pray and have friends pray that this person give them the baby meant for them. They go into mourning that they "lost another one". That smacks of entitlement to me. There is often no accusations of abuse just an accusation of not having as much money as the paps. there are comments made on how to make sure biograndmother does't get involved because then the woman just might get the help she needs to keep her baby and where would that leave the pap..without a child to call their own. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME...just go to some of the other "pro adoption" sites and read it for yourselves.<br /><br />How many times does it have to be said that not agreeing with adoption how its done today does not mean anti adoption, kid hating firstmother loving at all cost...so the paying customer gets what they want. It is considered a problem when a mother keeps her OWN child and does,t give it up to "better people". . ITs a WONDERFUL thing when the child can keep their mother and family...it IS a tragedy when they lose it. Why can't you folks see that. Why cant you see that their are many adoptions that don't have to happen, the young girl who wants to go to college, can go and keep her baby, or if she does't she still has her baby. I have seen it happen more then once and both mother and child do fine. In fact all of the mothers have gone on to college and now their kids are! With family help, I have the utmost respect for these woman as they didn't give their children away for a college education that will only ring hollow after losing their child( i have seen that happen too), or for the woman that don't want to be "saddled with a kid because they have a life to lead....that life in later years also rings hollow after losing a live child that guess what...is pissed because their first mother did this to them...no matter how much they love their aparents they lost their first mother ..well..first. They lost the most basic premise of what makes a family. As an adoptee i can understand the severe cases of children that NEED adoption. I don't understand the cases where it did not really need to happen.<br /><br />So you see. I am prochild as an adoptee, I understand the hurt of losing a family. All adoptees need to be able to talk about that and mourn as if they lost a whole family to death. It is very much the same..only it is not allowed to be seen that way. Even in open adoption and EVERYONE is happy dappy I can't imagine a child saying why did she give me up to begin with? I can't imagine dealing with the mothers feelings as a child. So adoption is 2nd best for a child. not the first option unless its absolutely necessary. Just like for many(not all) adoption is 2nd best for paps. thats what adoptive parents need to know. <br /><br />I also beleive everyone know in their hearts that this is true but refuse to see it to protect themselves...so the namecalling begins. <br /><br />As far as all the stats being bandied around...really you folks don't know that it can be manipulated to which ever you believe right?/ then they are posted as PROOF of whats best...BS! People play with numbers all the time!dpennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-86862949261448612732013-02-27T17:06:05.171-05:002013-02-27T17:06:05.171-05:00I think international adoption should be a last re...I think international adoption should be a last resort for a child. There is so much corruption and shadiness that goes on. If adoptive families would stop oiling the machine by paying thousands of dollars, the number of kids being wrongly placed for international adoption would go way down. It's all about da money...Lisa https://www.blogger.com/profile/02275458195618961073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-33316637572239078662013-02-27T16:06:32.219-05:002013-02-27T16:06:32.219-05:00Istmama, why are you here arguing with Jane and Lo...Istmama, why are you here arguing with Jane and Lorraine? Sounds like you are trying to further convince yourself that you did the right thing in having your child be adopted for a mere $39K. <br /><br />I think you might learn more from grown-up adoptee blogs, or what some adoptees leave here in the comments. It's not often pretty, even when they do have a good relationship with their aparents. <br /><br />Like Lorraine and Jane, I too was called bitter when I argued (strongly, bitterly, angrily, whatever) that I wasn't being paid the same as the male worker in the next cubicle.Viktorianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-90771009155997781302013-02-27T15:44:58.732-05:002013-02-27T15:44:58.732-05:00So now we are being told by great non-grasping ado...So now we are being told by great non-grasping adoptive parents that we ought to be nicer? And that we ought to be held accountable for our actions? Ladies, head over to your nearest adoption agency--some are more into filthy lucre than others, I admit--and tell them you are pregnant but poor and thinking about adoption and see what happens. You'll be convinced that you need to give up your baby in no time! So he can have a better life, with more ponies and swimming pools and play dates with proper children from good families who go camping on the weekends and church on Sunday. <br /><br />Bethany, BTW, an Act of Love and possibly any adoption agency in Mormon territory or run by LDS will get that baby from you before you can blink, or think. Most of us were shell shocked by what happened to us after we signed the surrender papers. That they do not tell you about. <br /><br />I also don't troll pro-adoption blogs because I can't stomach it, nor is it worth my time to burst the bubbles of people hoping to adopt. I understand what you say about the God's will business (meant for me), but I also understand that women do pray to God that the baby meant for them happens to come along, and how exactly does that happen? God must be up there making babies in the wrong tummies, right?<br /><br />Next question: Why are you adoptive parents reading this blog and commenting? Sarahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-59205458410644045232013-02-27T15:19:17.050-05:002013-02-27T15:19:17.050-05:00Jane, perhaps you don't see what others see. Y...Jane, perhaps you don't see what others see. You and Lorraine do often come across as being very bitter and very angry. <br /><br />Women who relinquish, like me, have a ton of information. In this day and age, information is all we have. Good, bad, indifferent...it's all out there. When I found out I was pregnant, I spent close to 24 hours doing research. And over the next 7 months, I was tied to my computer. I do more research for my adoption than I ever did for any college paper or my thesis. <br /><br />And please, don't denigrate the LGBT or Civil Rights movements or ERA by comparing them to the "rights of first mothers". That is simply self-aggrandizing of the highest order. <br /><br />You and Lorraine spend lots of time creating these posts aimed at "informing". If that were true, then the information would be delivered in a factual, non-biased way. Clearly that's not happening here. <br /><br />I know for a fact that my child's adoptive parents paid a little over 39k for the adoption. Some went to me, their attorney, my attorney, the agency, legal fees, and more. I got a complete breakdown...all legit, all accounted for. Had I decided to parent, they would have been out 3k for various expenses, not 39k. That's how most adoptions work these days. And, I know a lot of adoptive parents who would pay 3k for the chance to parent. <br /><br />Perhaps, if you know so many sincere adoptive parents, you should mention that a little more often...if nothing else it would make you appear to be less one-sided. Even in your comments you can't come to appreciate that adoptive parents are decent. How sad.1stmamanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-28590552238445156582013-02-27T14:56:03.044-05:002013-02-27T14:56:03.044-05:00Lorraine you do denigrate adoptive parents here! I...Lorraine you do denigrate adoptive parents here! It's often subtle, but it's always there. You lump adoptive parents together. Look at the treatment you (and your readers) give adoptive parents who come here. They are called names, their motives are questioned, and even their suitability of being parents. And those adoptive parents or adoptees are generally much more civil than you or your regular readers. <br /><br />And not just adoptive parents, but social workers, foster parents, adoptees, and non-adoptive parents regularly get bashed on this site. <br /><br />First mothers, like me, who are content with their placements are often called "in the fog" or worse yet, we are called unaware of the consequences of our actions. Who are you (or your readers) to place such a distinction on me? <br /><br />You say that you are against unnecessary adoptions. But who are you to decide what is necessary or not to a mother? <br /><br />You say you don't read adoptive blogs because your not an adoptive parent or looking to place. How short sighted of you. If you and Jane are so eager to make adoption reforms, why are you not reaching out to the very people who are doing the adopting? Is it that you may find that many of these adoptive parents are actually good people who are not the scary monsters you make them out to be? Wouldn't that be a challenge? To see adoptive parents as decent human beings? <br /><br />Knowing your readership and comments well, I am sure someone will question my commenting here. I'm human. I'm a first mom. I like knowing about all aspects of that role. <br /><br />Fine, this is your place to vent and rant. I get that. But be careful, you may find that your "allies" in your fight to reform adoption are the same people who you find pleasure in bashing here.<br /><br /> <br /><br /><br /><br />1stmamanoreply@blogger.com