tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post878790301774658920..comments2024-03-14T17:59:30.786-04:00Comments on [Birth Mother] First Mother Forum: How to F--- up adoptee 'rights' Lorraine Duskyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comBlogger80125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-36655181569484154872014-08-04T10:50:43.538-04:002014-08-04T10:50:43.538-04:00Lorraine, I'm in PA. Otherwise, I would be all...Lorraine, I'm in PA. Otherwise, I would be all over this!Michelenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-70689073999636917072014-08-02T23:15:52.196-04:002014-08-02T23:15:52.196-04:00Amen! I don't know what state you are in, Mic...Amen! I don't know what state you are in, Michelle, but if it's New York, please get involved. We need your energy. <br />Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-43083314682374289932014-08-02T22:00:27.725-04:002014-08-02T22:00:27.725-04:00I understand that some first mothers have been thr...I understand that some first mothers have been through a painful and traumatic experience and that isn't fair, but the adoptee is a person nonetheless and the experience of adoption is traumatic in and of itself, even in the best of circumstances. Those who were not adopted have no idea what it is like to grow up among loving strangers; to be reminded of our "otherness" when every doctor's appointment drives home the fact that we have no connection to our own biological history with the question, "Do you have a family history of...?"; to go through our school years enduring homework assignments to make a family tree when we know biological traits will be discussed and we will never see our own qualities there; to spend every holiday surrounded by people who look, act, and talk all the same... and nothing like us; to be reminded again and again that we are second-class citizens every time people refer to us as an adopted child even after we are grown. Regardless of the circumstances that resulted in our conception, we adoptees are still human and we still have rights as full human beings. We should have access to our own legal documents.<br /><br />I don't need my OBC for searching. I am in reunion with my first mother and she is working on getting my OBC for me (because she's awesome like that). I reunited with my first father's family a month ago. Searching isn't the point. It's the principal of the matter. If you've never been legally barred from accessing your own vital records, you have no idea what it's like for the government to confirm that you don't have the same rights as everyone else.<br /><br />And for heaven's sake, it's MY document!! Why can't people in the legal system wrap their small minds around that? It's MINE. If a non-adopted person can send a document to the Office of Vital Records and get their original birth certificate, I should have the same right. It's really that simple. I shouldn't have to give society a flying f****ing reason for wanting my own legal record. It's MY document. That should be the end of it.Michelenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-38800365191378790982014-06-29T11:06:07.289-04:002014-06-29T11:06:07.289-04:00There have to be many reasons for a person not wan...There have to be many reasons for a person not wanting to search, including the devil you know being better than the devil you don't know. <br />It could be adoptees who don't want to search have other things going in their lives that take priority over searching. A few may really be just not that interested. <br /><br />Whatever the reasons, it's their business and that deserves to be respected, NOT questioned or second-guessed by others who aren't in their particular situation. Respect, respect. And that includes no inappropriate and demeaning similes. <br />Mothers who don't want contact deserve respect too, and from what I have seen, mostly they get it. The respect needs to go both ways.<br /><br />None of this has anything to do with adopted peoples' right to their unaltered original birth certificate. As has been pointed out innumerable times, many adoptees have searched - and found - without their OBCs. Conflating personal choice (i.e, the decision to search) with restoring civil rights that have been abrogated from a particular group pf citizens is not helpful. It causes confusion and discord and plays into the hands of those who want to keep OBCs sealed.<br /><br />E.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-86046596994917453412014-06-28T21:40:36.397-04:002014-06-28T21:40:36.397-04:00"Plenty of adopters are as well."
You&#..."Plenty of adopters are as well."<br /><br />You're absolutely right. I still don't know what that has to do with my post about my reason for not wanting to search, but whatever.CJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-38519823342100256372014-06-28T20:01:06.994-04:002014-06-28T20:01:06.994-04:00And the adopter in question in the case I am talki...And the adopter in question in the case I am talking about is "crazy, psycho, bitch from hell" in a reunion I was involved personally in. <br /><br />My point is that it is not just natural mothers who bear the stigma of being the aforementioned above. Plenty of adopters are as well. Excuse me. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-32947995278495582752014-06-26T16:13:46.675-04:002014-06-26T16:13:46.675-04:00"and we all know, adopters are never "cr..."and we all know, adopters are never "crazy, psycho bitches from hell.." "<br /><br />Excuse me? I neither said nor implied that. I was referring to a reunion that had a horrible outcome, as an example of a situation that I don't want to risk happening to me. And yes, the birth mother in question is most definitely a crazy, psycho bitch from hell.CJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-29979615930600606032014-06-24T09:54:03.215-04:002014-06-24T09:54:03.215-04:00and we all know, adopters are never "crazy, p...and we all know, adopters are never "crazy, psycho bitches from hell.." Sure they can be. I happen to know one personally.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-26517703171214800762014-06-24T08:06:26.460-04:002014-06-24T08:06:26.460-04:00Amen. Amen. Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-50603962589813281732014-06-24T03:33:10.562-04:002014-06-24T03:33:10.562-04:00I want my OBC for reasons that are specific to my ...I want my OBC for reasons that are specific to my own adoption. I want to fill in the holes in my history. I never wanted to have this document for "search" purposes, I want it for legal purposes. I want it for the missing information it will give me, and I want it because it belongs to me. <br /><br />AS it turns out, I am slowly searching the internet and learning about my beginnings, and I didn't need the OBC to do this. Which is part of what we are trying to explain to Kathy....the info is out there. The privacy was never promised. People can find out names and places and dates, and they can meet face to face if they so choose. I still want the document, no matter how much information I have uncovered. Adoptees are the only people in the country who are discriminated against in this way...Julia Emilynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-61724607344242829082014-06-24T03:26:08.236-04:002014-06-24T03:26:08.236-04:00Cherry, you are right. That remark about "rap...Cherry, you are right. That remark about "rape BS' was uncalled for. Hopefully Kathy will read some of the other comments trying to explain how her desire for privacy can not trump adoptee rights...and maybe she can begin to understand. I think a lot of us explained it rather well.Julia Emilynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-35836642414816895822014-06-23T21:16:57.910-04:002014-06-23T21:16:57.910-04:00Cherry: I have been around a long time. I refuse t...Cherry: I have been around a long time. I refuse to be held down by a small group of raped mothers who think that they can use their rapes to justify sealing MY birth certificate and all other adoptees' birth certificates! A raped natural mother, or a small group of raped mothers, have no right to redact their names from a state-issued document that is required by law to record every single birth in New York State.<br /><br />I am in now way insensitive to rape victims. You misunderstand my points. So be it, if you have no use for me, get out of my way. I stand for no compromise on the immediate release of sealed birth certificates to ALL adoptees: complete, unrestrictive and un-redacted unsealed birth certificates to ALL adoptees. Leave NO adoptee behind! Raped natural mothers: step aside! Go heal your grief and fear in therapy and DO NOT step on the civil rights of adoptees in your healing process.<br /><br />These mothers need to get a grip on reality. Their reality has no bearing on the fact that they signed way all legal rights to the child they gave birth to. Their reality of rape make me in no way sympathetic to their rapes. They are unconcerned for all of us. they are selfish and want to use their rapes as weapons against adoptees. Joan Wheeler born Doris Sippelhttp://www.forbiddenfamily.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-74595654329109376342014-06-23T17:16:58.913-04:002014-06-23T17:16:58.913-04:00'I belong on the tree. I am a member of the fa...'I belong on the tree. I am a member of the family even though I was raised in another family. Without my name, the tree is incomplete and in error.'<br /><br />Robin, I completely agree with you.Cherrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-62813967200310296912014-06-23T17:14:51.460-04:002014-06-23T17:14:51.460-04:00Joan Wheeler born Doris Sippel said ' Now go t...Joan Wheeler born Doris Sippel said ' Now go take your “poor me, I was raped” BS...'<br /><br />Nothing you say can justify that sentence to me. For that reason, I personally will never read another single word you have to say about anything.Cherrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-14622092201869957572014-06-23T14:24:21.916-04:002014-06-23T14:24:21.916-04:00While I truly feel bad that you had such a hard ti...While I truly feel bad that you had such a hard time with your daughter (and yes...she is your daughter...there is not such thing as a "birth daughter"), you also need to understand that what others are telling you here is correct...and being done in a respectful and compassionate manner. What is at issue here is that the government should not have the right to intervene in what is a very private and personal FAMILY matter. The best compromise should be the contact preference form, which would have actually have afforded you a better outcome with your daughter, as she would have known how you felt in advance. Anonymity from your own offspring is a privilege...not a right (see a court case from TN called Doe v. Sundquist) and no person's privilege should ever trump another adult citizen's equal rights under the law. The right to know who you are, what date, time and place you were born, and yes, your family's names is paramount to proper identity formation. The right to know what your health history is (which can only be asked) so that you can take care of yourself and your children for perpetuity is vital and cannot be underestimated. Adoptees are being denied the right to DNA testing for genetic defects being covered under their insurance plan is happening all over because we do not have our health history from our parents. Should the government have the ability to legislate that? What about our right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Adoptees are not asking for anything that any other US born citizen has.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17982845711163262353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-51294387180698620562014-06-23T14:17:13.239-04:002014-06-23T14:17:13.239-04:00My daughter will not need her OBC to search, the s...My daughter will not need her OBC to search, the same as many adoptees who are growing up in this time where open adoption when at least some contact and information exchange is more common. I also have a copy of her OBC for her. But that doesn't change the fact that she has a basic right to not have to rely on me for this information. I know adoptees in active reunion, and I am sure there are those here, who do not need their OBC to search and yet still cannot obtain it. It's clear to me that the subjects, while intertwined, are definitely not co-dependent on each other. It is also clear that the legislatures are too moronic to grasp this fact.<br /><br />They are debating privacy rights of first mothers and possible emotional distress to adoptive parents because they are assuming the OBC leads to a search. This is a false assumption. All adoptees do not want to search. All adoptees do not need the OBC to search (as has been proven over and over). The rights of adoptees to their OBC is what legislatures should be discussing. Period. The decisions that adoptees might make with that access is their own and no one else' business, and as has been established repeatedly, sealed OBCs do not prevent searching, contact, or reunion anyway. My daughter has a right to her record of birth, and whatever she should choose to do with it is, as it is every other citizens, should be her decision alone.<br /><br />This is a clear cut case of discrimination based on the unfounded fears of the minority. Unfortunately, this minority wields tremendous power. Tiffanynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-27086439886005951972014-06-23T13:58:23.037-04:002014-06-23T13:58:23.037-04:00Mary, My story mirrors yours. I found out a year a...Mary, My story mirrors yours. I found out a year and a half ago...at 48... that my adoptive parents died without telling me who I was. I too found my natural family (both sides), but I had to pay an investigator a large sum of money to do so. My mom's first thoughts expressed in her first letter was that she hoped and expected me to find her and contact her sooner. She had no idea I was never told. How does that show any desire or expectation of anonymity??? My father died in 2002, but his wife has told me that he thought about me often and was sad that he had no idea where I was or what happened to me. She told me that he would be glad that I found his family. I want my OBC not to "reunite" or for 'curiosity" as Judge Czygier would have people believe, but rather to feel whole. I agree..the government is doing nothing about support for the likes of me, who was thrown full on into a complete identity crisis as a result of all the lies. What legislators blocking this legislation from passing are doing is beyond immoral and criminal! It is time for these crooked legislators to get out of politics. I think they need term limits...the power has gone to their heads. I believe people like Helene Weinstein are not waiting for us to die...just one person in particular.... The amendments were so horrible they bordered on the insane. It was a Franken-bill. What bothers me most is another year will go by with more people dying without knowing the truth and without benefit of medical history or heritage, knowledge that the other person is ok...without the knowledge of knowing their story...all at the hands of cruel and callous individuals who would deny the legal process the ability to work if they just let it go to the floor and let the vote happen.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17982845711163262353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-79687968215448972262014-06-23T13:30:24.662-04:002014-06-23T13:30:24.662-04:00I am an adoptive mother, as well as a "birth&...I am an adoptive mother, as well as a "birth" mother. (I agree with Lorraine that WE are the REAL mothers in this equation.) My adopted son is from Vietnam, and his adoption was finalized in Indiana nearly 40 years ago. We were issued an amended birth certificate, stating that my then-husband and I were our son's parents. This was patently ridiculous, as my husband and I are white, and our son is Black-Vietnamese, quite obviously not our natural son. I found this odd at the time, but I was still in the fog of adoption-land and simply went along with it. "Oh, what a tangled web we weave.... "Pamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08653853519675824740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-43592408637015129212014-06-23T12:10:35.593-04:002014-06-23T12:10:35.593-04:00CJ makes a good point, adoptee rights to their own...CJ makes a good point, adoptee rights to their own OBC is a separate issue from search, and that needs to be stressed again and again. What adoptees do with their own OBC and the information on it is their own private decision, and that includes just getting the document and not searching. The point is that they should have a legal right to that document, even if very few exercise that right, and those that do, do not all choose to search. Nobody should be pushed to search or not search nor be criticized for either choice.The equating of rights to OBC with searching or obtaining medical records has just muddied the waters around this civil rights issue.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-39238854106685001012014-06-22T20:02:29.282-04:002014-06-22T20:02:29.282-04:00Surely, whether someone wants to search or not, is...Surely, whether someone wants to search or not, is beside the main point. It's their business. I think we should try to keep it that way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-86817500859975680912014-06-22T19:14:33.669-04:002014-06-22T19:14:33.669-04:00Having my original birth certificate and unsealed ...Having my original birth certificate and unsealed adoption records would probably answer most of the questions I have, which is really all I want. I have several reasons for not wanting to search. I don't want to go into all of them, but I'll just throw one out there -- I wouldn't want to have an outcome like Elaine Penn finding out her real mother is a crazy, psycho bitch from hell.CJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-68417853667068402162014-06-22T17:26:31.811-04:002014-06-22T17:26:31.811-04:00A lot of people, including the idiot legislators i...A lot of people, including the idiot legislators in Albany, are making the mistake of assuming that access to original birth certificates will always lead to "searching." Many adoptees (myself included) have no interest in searching. But we do want our birth certificates, which are rightfully ours. And NO ONE has the right to keep them from us. CJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-72082963502219235992014-06-22T16:56:00.273-04:002014-06-22T16:56:00.273-04:00I couldn't have said it better.
Anne Joh...I couldn't have said it better.<br /><br />Anne Johnson<br />adoptive mom<br />Potsdam, NYAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-36601178181385364992014-06-22T16:54:44.040-04:002014-06-22T16:54:44.040-04:00Thank you, Lorraine, for your continued advocacy a...Thank you, Lorraine, for your continued advocacy and support for adoptee rights for so many years. I never would have thought there would be such a strong need to stand for adoptee rights. <br /><br />Who would think that allowing someone to know about one's own self would be so problematic for legislators? This amendment is insulting to adoptees and their families. It is an insult to people's intelligence. And to humanity. The tactics used to bring forth this amendment are an insult to the "democratic" and legislative process. <br />Some legislators/staff tried to "inform" me on the history and issues in adoptee rights. It is beyond sad when "supporters" and those who should be "trustworthy" give you lies and misinformation. Whether they are uninformed themselves (their culpability) or are maliciously deceiving (their culpability) -> same result: spreading of more lies and misinformation. For example,<br />1) the OBC's were originally sealed because an influential, banker-type first parent didn't want the secrets of birth information out. Wrong, it was an ADOPTIVE parent who systematically sealed the records for all, because they wanted secrets kept<br />2) this amendment is similar to compromise bills in Ill, Ohio, and NJ. Wrong - this amendment is far worse than those other states. No other state has passed a bill as destructive to adoptee rights as this NYS amendment<br />3) this amendment will eventually end the secrets in adoption - WHERE did he pull this out of?<br />4) wouldn't it be better to pass this so as to look like there's been progress? (huh?) wouldn't this amendment be better than not passing anything? uh, NO, NON, NO<br />5) this amendment was created to address concerns about first parent confidentiality. <br /> a) statements about first parent confidentiality have been REPEATEDLY refuted by researchers, lawyers, adoptive parents, first parents and others. There has NEVER been a law promising first parent confidentiality. Anyone who brings this excuse up is either ignorant about adoptee rights and surrender forms or is purposefully deceptive. Either way, the information/logic is wrong.<br /> b) who is concerned about confidentiality or privacy for ADOPTED people? Adopted have to prostitute themselves on social media just to get basic information about themselves, no more information than anyone else has about their own selves. Sometimes, they put themselves at risk of theft. The media love it, because it's sick entertainment for the public. Similarly, the johns may like prostitution, while the prostitutes might hate it.<br /> c) for those truly concerned about first parent confidentiality and stirring up old memories and experiences in the very few (<1%) who adamantly fight reflection, this amendment does nothing for them, but is actually worse in that arena. This amendment's "concern" for first parents' confidentiality is disingenuous at best, but exploitative of the 99%+ of first parents who don't mind/invite reconnection and/or support adoptee rights. Shame on the architects of this amendment to feign concern and exploit them this way.<br /><br />This amendment should NEVER have been introduced. It should never have been introduced without discussion with adopted adults and true adoptee rights supporters. It should not have been introduced so late in the session alongside a "malfunctioning" comment system on the website while many key legislators are unavailable to comment or discuss in the mad dash to end the session.<br />ts aka kymnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-12668625627388820032014-06-22T16:32:18.260-04:002014-06-22T16:32:18.260-04:00Yes, that is what happens. The state rewrites the ...Yes, that is what happens. The state rewrites the original birth certificate so it no longer represents....a real birth certificate. It is an amended BC. And should be outlawed and put in the dustbin of history. Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.com