tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post8866570777400980301..comments2024-03-27T20:48:39.389-04:00Comments on [Birth Mother] First Mother Forum: 'Preferred' adoption language is bunkLorraine Duskyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comBlogger136125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-15588033517495695022017-01-29T16:44:42.152-05:002017-01-29T16:44:42.152-05:00When I found my natural mother in 1978. I simply ...When I found my natural mother in 1978. I simply called her "mom". Whether she raised me or not she is my mom. I still call her mom today in 2017.Lorenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10479443507936218940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-30024590830163384522016-01-29T05:32:58.892-05:002016-01-29T05:32:58.892-05:00Just call me Oscar(ette): Again, it's not abou...Just call me Oscar(ette): Again, it's not about "ownership" it's about acknowledging credit where its due. If a woman thinks: "my child is better off in another family without me as the parent," what does that tell you? So, for her, or anyone for that matter, not to acknowledge the amom as the "mom/mother" is an insult. Many adoptees will tell you ( if they have/had good parents) their aparents ARE THEIR parents-end of subject! Because their fiercely protective of their aparents. Aminanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-44436256051599867402016-01-23T18:41:12.749-05:002016-01-23T18:41:12.749-05:00As you said Tiffany you don't need accolades b...As you said Tiffany you don't need accolades but...I have to give you a round of...<br /><br />{{{{{APPLAUSE}}}} for everything you said. <br /><br />Totally agree. :)A Second Momnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-59678484398447394342016-01-23T15:47:57.156-05:002016-01-23T15:47:57.156-05:00Hi Amina - sorry for the late reply. Haven't ...Hi Amina - sorry for the late reply. Haven't been online much lately. <br /><br />To answer your question from a few comments up, yes I would most certainly still have a relationship with my son's first mom even if we had differences. I would discuss the differences and find some sort of solution. Even if we had to "agree to disagree" on some facet of parenting. I agree with Tiffany. The only reason an open adoption should close is if the well being of a child is in jeopardy. (For me that would mean if drugs or criminal behavior were involved.) <br /><br />Simply disagreeing over parenting styles or what the child calls his first mom or dad is no reason whatsoever to close the relationship. <br /><br />I've seen the same comments that you mentioned about "real parents" and "caretakers". For me personally, I try to understand where the person is coming from. For example if I see that the person saying it is an adoptee who had lousy adoptive parents, I can understand their viewpoint and I don't take it personally. Not that it didn't sting at first, but as with any other topic, once you come to an understanding about why the person feels the way they do, it's easier to accept what they're saying. Hope that makes sense. :)A Second Momnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-61240001986604929882016-01-21T09:30:53.798-05:002016-01-21T09:30:53.798-05:00I was 16 when I gave birth to my son and I lost hi...I was 16 when I gave birth to my son and I lost him to adoption as I was unable to choose otherwise.<br /><br />I have spent 30 years taking responsibility for a decision I had no control over. <br />No more.<br />No-one - whether PAL-addicts, adoptive parents, birth parents or adoptees - is going to mangle my telling of my own experience with their preferences. <br /><br />My sister had a child who died before he was born. We both always respected and acknowledged the birthdays of each other's lost son. It never crossed either of our minds that one of us hadn't lost her son.cherrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-40682567848913968932016-01-19T23:09:34.308-05:002016-01-19T23:09:34.308-05:00Anon, I so appreciate your kind sentiments! I kno...Anon, I so appreciate your kind sentiments! I know that I try my best to educate myself and to nurture Lenny. My best is not always enough, but it is all I can do. <br /><br />Lenny, from a very young age (I first noticed it when he was 2), has shown a quality for which he got an award just last week: "Most Empathetic Student." In his case, he truly, truly deserves it - he has SO much empathy! Makes me proud, but also worries me because the empathy causes him much anguish sometimes.Jay Iyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01592280612055255470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-63222418661147756132016-01-19T17:36:51.525-05:002016-01-19T17:36:51.525-05:00Jay, you're doing a great job. The little man ...Jay, you're doing a great job. The little man has adult stuff to sort through, bless his heart. I don't think his greatest need right now is an understanding of why he was removed from his home or separated from his half-siblings or why Nina is with her mom... Children aren't always looking for an answer when they ask why. I think his greatest need is proof that he's safe. That he isn't destined to a life of here today gone tomorrow. Every single day he's with you his foundation gets a little stronger and before you know it he's going to be running and jumping on it without fear of breaking it. And what a compassionate child you have. Multidimensional stuff here. Even if a 7yr old had the ability to understand what most adults aren't able to understand, it wouldn't change what I'm interpreting as a lot of concern for the emotional wellbeing of his biological parents and siblings. It sounds like he's worried that they're sad and that makes him sad. I imagine his sense of loss from his foster sister leaving is projected onto his natural parents. Time, age and a sense of healthy stability is just around the corner. He sounds like a very smart kid and he appears to be in very competent hands.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-59558785379791513722016-01-19T15:36:05.799-05:002016-01-19T15:36:05.799-05:00My daughter's first parents ARE her real paren...My daughter's first parents ARE her real parents. And we are her real parents. I would never, ever tell her that her other mom and dad are anything less, and further, I will understand and support her views of her family as her own and her right to have. I have no idea, can have no idea, how she will feel about all of this throughout different stages of her life, and I 100% support her right to feel and label and call things as she sees them because she is at the center of it, and no one else has a right to tell her how to feel or how to talk.<br /><br />That's pretty much what I was trying to say, but maybe it didn't come out right. I want to shield her from people trying to tell her what she should and shouldn't say by the way that they phrase things. I disagree that all people care very much. The random stranger who grabs my arm at the farmer's market when he asks if my children are "sisters" (to which I shortly replied, "Of course they are") and then says "no, I mean real sisters. They can't be. There has to be a story there." is absolutely not a caring person just operating from his own experience. He's being a nosy jerk. I could list tons more instances where people were being far from caring in their statements, and what they said was nothing short of ignorance and meanness. That's never ok.<br /><br />I could also list instances where well-meaning and good-intentioned people used offensive language, but I kindly and gently corrected them, with a smile. I'm ok with that, but I won't let it slide just because it's well intentioned. My MIL is a sweet, loving lady, but I still correct her, in a nice way, when she says, "Oriental people." She's not being rude, she's just ignorant. But I can't let that slide when it comes to my daughter. <br /><br />That is what I was referring to. Not to trying to use agency approved language to tell adoptees and first parents what language they personally have to use to talk about themselves and their relationships. I hope that clears it up.Tiffanynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-48968369162691641592016-01-18T23:44:25.286-05:002016-01-18T23:44:25.286-05:00If "real" makes adoptive parents "u...If "real" makes adoptive parents "un-real", what the heck does "birth" parent make adoptive parents? The opposite? Really?<br /><br />I'm not sure whether this is the blog or the previous one that pushed my buttons on the, "it's not ownership" thing. If it is truly not about "ownership, claiming, you are mine and mine only, forever" "I did the work, you belong to me", then what is the fuss about guardianship? just call me oscar(ette)noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-65637838182738456272016-01-18T23:28:46.069-05:002016-01-18T23:28:46.069-05:00Tiffany in your comment on January 12 @ 5:24 p.m. ...Tiffany in your comment on January 12 @ 5:24 p.m. you said, "...where I will not be able to shield her from other people's more careless words." I don't feel their words are "careless". I think they care very much. They are working off their own experience. <br /><br />How can that be "careless"? Many people see the parents who brought them into this world as their, "real" parents. Whether they are absent in divorce, or dead, or just plain missing. Try to tell someone who's parent died young, that they are their "birth" parent and their current parent IS their parent. Uh, no.<br /><br />This is for whomever. Can, according to proper adoption lingo, Can those who use the word 'real' be dismissed and shut down so they never ask an adoptee (who usually doesn't wear a sign saying, "I'm adopted please be sensitive.")or any other person (not an adoptee) who may take offense at their 'sperm / egg donor', who or where their "real" parent is? Or demand they never say the word real when speaking of their biological parent? Since when does PAL get to rewrite 1000's of years of "these are my real parents?"just call me oscar(ette)noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-64043163645153036582016-01-17T13:48:51.618-05:002016-01-17T13:48:51.618-05:00Thanks, Amina, that is exactly what we are doing. ...Thanks, Amina, that is exactly what we are doing. As I said in my previous comment, however, drugs/alcohol are a VERY small part of Lenny's complex story and we will need professional help on how/when to disclose the rest of the details. It would be incredibly naive of me to go with your blanket rule of "explaining now," the nature of the information being conveyed must always be assessed. And Lenny, at 7 years, is definitely too young to be told additional details, beyond the drug / alcohol abuse.Jay Iyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01592280612055255470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-350000217689380412016-01-17T13:35:50.247-05:002016-01-17T13:35:50.247-05:00Jay said, " If there is indeed a traditional,...Jay said, " If there is indeed a traditional, complimentary use of the term "birthmother," then I was unaware of it . . . "<br /><br />The fact that some mothers use the term to describe themselves is good enough evidence for me. If they thought they were describing themselves as "mere birthers" who "pop out children" and have "no lasting links" to their children, they would not use it. Also remembering that some of them have actively sought reunion and are successfully reunited.Lisanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-30688440219729938832016-01-17T11:44:00.263-05:002016-01-17T11:44:00.263-05:00Including Kaye in condolences on your son's de...Including Kaye in condolences on your son's death with the extra pain that it was suicide. My husband lost two sisters that way. Thankfully their parents were already gone. I am so sorry that this has to happen to any family.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-85710878567513863822016-01-17T10:59:59.814-05:002016-01-17T10:59:59.814-05:00Kitta, I am so sorry for the loss of your son. The...Kitta, I am so sorry for the loss of your son. There is nothing worse. I have several friends who had a child die in terrible accidents, and their grief is more than anyone should have to bear. May your son rest in peace, and you and your granddaughter find a way to go on in his memory.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-82760082865509548172016-01-17T05:43:24.965-05:002016-01-17T05:43:24.965-05:00Jay: In regards to Lenny, maybe now is the time to...Jay: In regards to Lenny, maybe now is the time to start explaining his story to him. 1) It will allow you to introduce the harms of drug abuse and how "sometimes" addiction can run in families. 2) By explaining how alcohol/drug abuse is genetic, this will allow him to have more insight about NOT doing drugs during his teen years ( I'm a believer of explaining now so it won't be a problem later). 3) Explaining in an age appropriate way will not make Lenny feel "flawed/less than" but will help him see, as he ages, people have choices in life, and doing drugs and abusing alcohol is one of them. 4) The choices his bparents made have nothing to do with him or their love for him. They made bad choices in life and addiction is a consequence. I hope you don't mind me putting in my 2 cents?Aminanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-53360132530596826632016-01-16T17:49:58.614-05:002016-01-16T17:49:58.614-05:00Oh, I had thought you were in NoCal. I have a son ...Oh, I had thought you were in NoCal. I have a son and family in Los Angeles. Good that there are resources where you are. If CPS can't step in to help a kid living in various homeless shelters with an unstable mentally ill mother, perhaps their guidelines need to change. That sounds outrageous and frustrating. It seems unlikely there is anything you can do anonymously. What a heartbreaking situation, especially for Nina and for Lenny.<br /><br />A question; how did you get pictures of his birthparents? I have never heard of that before in a closed adoption. It must make them more real to him.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-70618133185829930062016-01-16T14:30:47.977-05:002016-01-16T14:30:47.977-05:00Thanks Maryanne, there are similar resources in So...Thanks Maryanne, there are similar resources in Southern California, where I am. As for Nina, I think it is far from ideal for her to be with her mother right now. As my husband says, Nina's mom needs to be "heavily propped up." Remarkably, she trusted us and stayed stable for 7 years. I thought it was ideal when we supported her and Nina while they lived together. I would love to continue to do that but, given that she is rejecting all offers of help, it has put Nina in a detrimental situation. <br /><br />That said, Nina's mom does not meet the threshold requirements for CPS to remove Nina from her care. So, there is nothing anyone can do, none of us have the right to step in and take her daughter away from her. I will try to provide something to Nina anonymously but, whether appropriate or not, Nina's mom has all legal rights to her. Jay Iyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01592280612055255470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-37687019990521009962016-01-16T08:04:28.959-05:002016-01-16T08:04:28.959-05:00Jay, you are in the San Francico Bay area, is that...Jay, you are in the San Francico Bay area, is that correct? There is a group there called PACT that specializes in transracial adoption and help for families that have adopted transracially. You may already know about this group and be in touch, but in case you are not:<br /> http://www.pactadopt.org/app/servlet/HomePage<br /><br />They may have resources that you can use, and perhaps Lenny can benefit now from help in dealing with losing his foster sister to a mother who sounds unfit. Sometimes biological relatedness is not enough and if for Nina the chaotic life she is forced to live now with her ill mother is "home", that will leave her with a very skewed and negative view of what "home" means. I know you want only the best for both of these children, but sometimes that means choosing the wellbeing of the child over endless sympathy and empathy for the biological family.<br />Sometimes you can't do both. <br />maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-57872087734189614372016-01-15T12:14:49.584-05:002016-01-15T12:14:49.584-05:00I gave up my son in 1968. The only term I heard wa...I gave up my son in 1968. The only term I heard was "natural mother". Biological mother was also coming into vogue, but I was never addressed as such. That did not mean I was treated with any respect by the agency I dealt with. I felt I was invisible to the social worker that everything was just boilerplate standard issue that was applied to every unwed mother that come into their office. It took no notice and had nothing to do with me or my baby as individuals. This was not about language, but about actually seeing the mother before them and caring what she actually wanted, not what every middle-class girl in her situation was supposed to do.<br /><br />I never heard the term "birthmother" anywhere until I got involved in the founding of CUB in 1976, and Lee Campbell introduced as a preferred term rather than "natural" or "biological". I really did not and do not care one way or the other what term people use, it does not change the fact that I gave up my firstborn son. I got used to the term "birthmother" but it really has no strong positive or negative resonance to me if people prefer to use it or not. I did give birth, as Lisa said, that is huge thing, and never felt the word implied that caring for my son stopped then, or ever.<br /><br />What got me to defend the term "birthmother" was the ridiculous attacks on use of the word that began online in the 90s. It was all so overblown and gave such malevolent evil power to a mere word that existed only in the minds of those who demonized it, not in the intent of most people innocently using the term. Let all mothers who surrendered call themselves anything they want without fear of censorship or correction. Saying it again, fighting over words is counterproductive to actual reform.maryannenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-15944746610263916322016-01-15T11:30:16.000-05:002016-01-15T11:30:16.000-05:00Maryanne, although my comments tend to be quite de...Maryanne, although my comments tend to be quite detailed, they are perforce but a snippet of our lives. I don't think I provided a complete picture of Lenny describing fantastic details, but he absolutely knows the difference between reality and fantasy and he absolutely knows that the details he relates about living with his first parents are not true. While we encourage him to share his thoughts, we don't encourage him to believe lies (there is no such "tacit agreement" that you refer to). Overall, his fantasies help him minimize what he knows was a bad situation that led to his adoption. When he relates stories, for example, about raiding the pantry at his first parents' house, we just smile and say to him something like, of course you couldn't have done that at 2 months old. And he smiles too.<br /><br />The more difficult thing to explain to a 7 year old is how drug abuse creates an unsafe environment for a child and he needed to be removed to be safe. Because he was removed when he was 2 months old, and has since lived in drug-free, safe environments, he cannot comprehend what drug use is, what addiction is, why he couldn't live in a home where his parents abused drugs. It is impossible for him to relate that to his current life, except to envision that his parents would offer him "drugs," much like I offer him cookies on a tray, and he could simply have said Yes or No. That is why he asked, this summer, if he could go live with them and if they offer him drugs, he can just not take them. I have tried to explain that sometimes when people have taken too many drugs, they forget to feed or clothe their children, taken them to school, etc. and he accepts it, but it is not easy for him to fully comprehend. And it is the reason why he has doubts that the removal from his first parents was really needed.<br /><br />I anticipate that some day we will need to talk to an adoption specialist. Drug use is a very small part of Lenny's story, there are other far more painful details. I feel that we will need to speak with a therapist who specializes in adoptions, to get advice about at least two things: (1) when is an appropriate age to reveal the details; and (2) how to convey the details without making him feel he is defective in some way.Jay Iyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01592280612055255470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-75486482730531260932016-01-15T11:07:18.632-05:002016-01-15T11:07:18.632-05:00That quote comes from me (with "hordes,"...That quote comes from me (with "hordes," instead of "hoards"). And if there indeed is a traditional, complimentary use of the term "birth mother," then I was unaware of it but Lisa's point in that case is well taken.Jay Iyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01592280612055255470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-86108088255497551272016-01-15T09:19:09.526-05:002016-01-15T09:19:09.526-05:00The quote is from Jay's comment of Jan.12 2:52...The quote is from Jay's comment of Jan.12 2:52 PM.<br />It is the implicit assumption that the term " birth mother" necessarily relegates a mother to "a mere birther who pops out a child has no lasting link to that child" that bothers me. That interpretation is not gospel and not all mothers who relinquished see it that way.<br /><br />You are right to remind me that the term wasn't in common usage during the '60s, although it was used by social workers during and before that time. As for "younger birthmothers", that was a generalization on my part. I should have said that there were some. Certainly there is a subset of younger women who oppose the term -- I am thinking of Facebook as well as a particular blog that has strongly inveighed against it -- but there are many older mothers who express dislike of the term too and I think their influence has filtered down.<br /><br />No doubt time and attrition will take care of the controversy. "Lest one good custom should corrupt the world." And there will be new disagreements and new conflicts to distract us from the real issues.Lisanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-83751125938621857712016-01-14T22:27:01.644-05:002016-01-14T22:27:01.644-05:00I am not sure where that first quote comes from, L...I am not sure where that first quote comes from, Lisa, but I relinquished in 1966--before birth mother took hold in the language. I don't flinch when it is used, but I don't like it myself. Is it younger mothers who don't like the term? I see and hear them use it all the time.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-73097578727707554552016-01-14T21:18:34.148-05:002016-01-14T21:18:34.148-05:00"If hoards of adoptive parents like myself co..."If hoards of adoptive parents like myself continue to use "birth mother" even assuming most of us are simply ignorant and not malicious, it creates an atmosphere that denigrates first mother and relegates them to the status of a mere birthed who pops out a child and has no lasting link to that child."<br /><br />Jay, I don't care for "birth mother" and rarely use it. However, I consider it a courtesy to use the term when responding to others who do use it in good faith. <br /><br />For many who relinquished around the mid 20th century, "birth mother" does not have the same negative connotations as it does for younger mothers. For these older women, the prefix "birth", taking as it does, pride of place before "mother", augments, rather than denigrates, their status. It enables them to feel proud, not about the relinquishment of course, but of having given birth to their children. Carrying a child to term is a long and onerous business and giving birth is not called "labor" for nothing. It's hard demanding work, more often than not painful. So, for these mothers, the "birth" prefix can be a badge of honor. It doesn't mean that they were willing handmaidens or that they passively relinquished ("pops out a child and has no lasting interest in it"). It establishes and confirms their identity as mothers precisely *because* they have given birth. I think that they, as well as adoptees from that time, many of whom helped to build the of foundations of adoption reform, deserve to have their choice of language respected.<br /><br />We know that language is always in flux. "The old order changes, yielding place to new . . . etc." No need to use PAL as an excuse to assail traditionalists, just because their terminology offends contemporary sensibilities. Lisanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-34029748141734044932016-01-14T19:48:24.040-05:002016-01-14T19:48:24.040-05:00Amina (going to cut and copy here instead of reply...Amina (going to cut and copy here instead of replying so much further up), you said, "Again, I don't think its insecurities, I think that as parents, adoptive parents want to be seen just as "parents/mom & dad," which they are."<br /><br />I disagree. I think in some or many it is an insecurity as well as perhaps a jealousy. I have seen some on the first mom side state that adoptive mothers cannot be mothers, and are only guardians. I disagree with going that far, especially in that I don't know any IRL adoptees who feel that way- I've only ever encountered it online. Even my adoptee friends who don't have a great relationship with their APs still consider them their parents. So I think in part you may be referring to that, and I agree with you that I am more than a guardian to my daughter, and I would be doing a giant disservice to her in the eyes of her other parents if I raised her as if I was not her mother. But I feel a better articulation of what I have seen from some adoptive parents (and first moms, to be fair) is that they want to be the ONLY parent/mom/dad. I don't call myself "adoptive mom" IRL- that's just for explaining purposes. I'm just mama to my daughter, and that's just that.<br /><br />To continue with that, you then said, "It's like being a step-mother to a child that you've raised from infancy whose bio-mom is not in the picture, suppose the child is grown, success and thriving and the bio-mom comes back bragging ( as if she raised the child): "MY child this and MY child that" wouldn't you be upset too? Especially if the child/adult started calling her "mom/mommy" and she wasn't around to raise them?" <br /><br />Nope. <br /><br />I'm the one who calls my daughter's other mom "mom." It wouldn't bother me in the least if this was continued, and forever, I will continue to think of my daughter's other parents as just that. And no, I wouldn't at all be upset should they be proud of who she is and who she becomes and brag on her and take credit for her accomplishments. I WANT them to be proud of her! I share her accomplishments with them all the time, and I take care to share the things that relate directly to their parentage of her and have nothing at all to do with me. That nature aspects as opposed to the nuture. She is so much like them in so many ways, and I am proud of that, actually. When people comment about how we maintain a relationship, they sometimes say things, and I always respond with, "Should my daughter turn out exactly like her parents, I will be so proud. They are amazing people."<br /><br />I agree with much of what Jay said. The bottom line is this: my daughter is a person, and she has a right to her feelings and her life. I have a responsibility to both of my children to be the kind of mother they want to remain in their lives once they reach independence. If my adopted daughter was to want me out of her life as her mom, well, I'd seriously take a hard look at myself and make some big adjustments because I feel that would be on me. I don't know many people who cut out caring and loving parents with absolutely no provocation. I will never make her choose, and maybe I'm lucky, I don't know, but I know absolutely that her other mom would never make her choose, either. I'm very far from perfect, but I hope I am and can be enough as long as I always allow her the freedom she deserves to handle her adoption her way.<br /><br />I don't need thank yous and accolades for doing my job. If my children grow into successful (and I use that word loosely because I think there's many definitions of success), kind, intelligent, compassionate, and content women with a deep sense of self-worth and respect, then I will feel that I have my appreciation for all my hard work and sacrifice. (I'd note that I willingly took on that hard work and sacrifice, too, and they did not ask me to do so.)Tiffanynoreply@blogger.com