tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post9069695798472199621..comments2024-03-27T20:48:39.389-04:00Comments on [Birth Mother] First Mother Forum: If kids are 'better off,' does it matter whether they are adopted or abducted?Lorraine Duskyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-16946447926074267112011-10-07T14:44:20.032-04:002011-10-07T14:44:20.032-04:00Have you heard any more about this case? It anger...Have you heard any more about this case? It angers me that the child's mother is being referred to as the "birth" mother. Geesh, I don't think Mrs. Charles A. Lindbergh was ever referred to as her son's "birth" mother.<br />I have been looking at Google and do not see any updates since early April. Interpol was to get involved in early October if the child was not returned.<br />I blogged about this yesterday and linked to the great blog post Jane compiled. I would love to put pressure on the Monahans to reunite mother and child.Barbara Thavishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13646036820037271522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-40325761886650041012011-10-07T07:36:36.316-04:002011-10-07T07:36:36.316-04:00Rep Chris Smith (R) - NJ has written an op-ed for ...Rep Chris Smith (R) - NJ has written an op-ed for FoxNews. In it he states: International child abduction rips children from their lives, taking them to a foreign land and alienating them from a left behind parent who loves them and whom they have a right to know. Their childhood is disrupted, in limbo, or sometimes in hiding as the taking parent seeks to evade the law, or to conjure legal cover for their immoral actions....<br /><br /><br /><b>We must call it what it is. Child abduction is child abuse.</b><br /><br />While the international community has recognized the harms and horrors of international child abduction, and established the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction in 1980 for the deterrence of abductors and prompt return of children, American parents have consistently experienced multi-year waits and costly legal battles for the return of their children—if the children are returned at all. Less than 40 percent of children are returned from countries that have signed the Convention.<br /><br />Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/10/07/child-abduction-is-child-abuse/#ixzz1a5w1VQqI<br /><br />I think we all need to start writing him letters, asking him if he has called Jennifer and Timothy Monahan of Liberty Missouri and told them they are abusing Karen. I want to know if he has urged them return Karen to her legal and lawful parents after she was kidnapped from Guatemala. I can only imagine he hasn't bothered.<br /><br />I will be the first one to send a letter this morning pointing out this ridiculous hypocrisy. His website is http://chrissmith.house.gov/ and his contact information can be found at http://chrissmith.house.gov/Contact/.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-28809690122866056362011-10-01T21:27:12.639-04:002011-10-01T21:27:12.639-04:00See our blog post:
Adoptive parents prefer head-i...See our blog post:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.firstmotherforum.com/2011/09/adoptive-parents-prefer-head-in-sand-to.html" rel="nofollow">Adoptive parents prefer head-in-sand to real questions and reality</a>Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-37645888248032571202011-10-01T21:25:01.764-04:002011-10-01T21:25:01.764-04:00Yep, we've been watching.Yep, we've been watching.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-15886658337482649562011-10-01T21:07:08.476-04:002011-10-01T21:07:08.476-04:00These articles refer to China, a different country...These articles refer to China, a different country, but I hope you are also watching there...<br /><br />http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/30/world/asia/china-fires-12-government-workers-in-illegal-adoption-scandal.html?scp=3&sq=china%20orphanages&st=cse<br /><br />http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/18/nyregion/chinas-adoption-scandal-sends-chills-through-families-in-united-states.html?scp=4&sq=china%20orphanages&st=cse<br /><br />http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/05/world/asia/05kidnapping.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=longhui&st=cseTorrejonhttp://yahoo.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-56119790047537044092011-09-30T20:35:18.607-04:002011-09-30T20:35:18.607-04:00Why does it matter who I am? (no, I'm not a Mo...Why does it matter who I am? (no, I'm not a Monahan). Just someone who cares about having debates based on facts.<br /><br />It is fair to say I have a job where I can't express my opinion in my own name (e.g., gov't employee).<br /><br />But again, the FACTS should be what matters and people should express opinions, I would hope, about facts, no?<br /><br />Anon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-25892242266153278752011-09-29T21:49:24.147-04:002011-09-29T21:49:24.147-04:00Hello anonymous: Are you one of the Monahans?
...Hello anonymous: Are you one of the Monahans? <br /><br />Not asking to attack, but it would be better to know whom we are supposedly talking to.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-56431350991202164842011-09-29T20:50:25.737-04:002011-09-29T20:50:25.737-04:00Jane and everyone.
Everything I posted can be fou...Jane and everyone.<br /><br />Everything I posted can be found. You just need to take the time to find it. <br /><br />Fact 1 that I posted is just what Guatemalan law is. Ask a Guatemalan lawyer. <br /><br />Fact 2 is an open question. Loyda said the child was ripped out of her arms directly on the front porch, that she disappeared off the front porch when she went in to put groceries down, that she was in the backyard and the child disappeared from the house, and some other versions too. Why are there so many versions?<br /><br />Fact 3 is what it is. The DNA results are all available online (though not a direct comparison between Loyda and the woman) -- but that comparison was done and is published by the Monahans' former lawyer Susana Luarca - she says it is the sister. And that can be verified.<br /><br />While I'm sure some will say her word is worthless, given she is under indictment, she posted a detailed description of her involvement in the case from when she got involved in the abandonment to when the child was adopted <br /><br />Putting aside a presumption of innocence which means you shouldn't ignore the facts as presented by someone who hasn't yet been convicted of anything, she would have been CRAZY CRAZY CRAZY to post this level of detailed information AFTER her orphanage has been raided unless it would have been close to factually accurate - otherwise she will be cruxified by prosecutors. The level of detail in her account shows there is tons of things in there that can easily be proven accurate or false.<br /><br />See<br /><br />http://susanaluarca-english.blogspot.com/2009_10_10_archive.html<br /><br />http://susanaluarca-english.blogspot.com/2009_10_11_archive.html<br /><br />It is crystal clear from reading the postings by Susana Luarca at least that there is something really funky going on in Guatemala in this case.<br /><br />Many of you seem to interpret the Monahans silence as complicity or indifference.<br /><br />That is, of course, one possibility.<br /><br />But until the facts are known, there remains another equally likely possibility -- that the Monahans are deeply afraid of what is happening in Guatemala.<br /><br />Susana Luarca posted in 2009 the info about it being the biological sister who put Karen up for adoption.<br /><br />If you were the adoptive family under these circumstances, would you just automatically return a child to a woman whose own sister trafficked the child, particularly when she herself never came clean about that publicly and has told many different versions of the kidnapping?<br /><br />To me, this screams DANGER DANGER DANGER for the child.<br /><br />Anon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-17382263834587940182011-09-29T17:01:32.890-04:002011-09-29T17:01:32.890-04:00The facts that Anonymous posted here are so murky ...The facts that Anonymous posted here are so murky it is hard to tell what she is referring to. <br /><br />Please, people, think before you post--will someone coming upon this cold have a clue what you are talking about?Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-41120543452241555462011-09-29T13:48:12.069-04:002011-09-29T13:48:12.069-04:00"Furthermore, I had a friend who was a DNA ex..."Furthermore, I had a friend who was a DNA expert look at the DNA test results of the kid, woman who presented her at the Embassy, and the alleged birth mother."<br /><br />And how did you get your hands on the the DNA test results? I'm calling bullshit on your bullshit. What's in it for this family to have staged this entire thing? It just doesn't ring true. The Monahans should immediatly start the process to return this child to her homeland and her loving mother.<br /><br />If the Monahans care so much for this child, perhaps they could move to Guatemala and maintain some contact with her.PaigeTurnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-56942049567155261382011-09-29T13:29:19.793-04:002011-09-29T13:29:19.793-04:00Adoptive parents should rise up in droves in outra...Adoptive parents should rise up in droves in outrage over the corruption that led to this case. Some do, but I would venture to say that many more spend their time trying to find ways to justify preventing the reunion.<br /><br />I can't imagine what it would have been like if someone had told me when my kids six or seven that I had to return them to their first parents. But I also cannot imagine what it would be like to live with the knowledge that my child had been stolen from their family.Third Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06310395341252295955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-61404935262610141462011-09-29T00:11:24.489-04:002011-09-29T00:11:24.489-04:00Anon,
Since you didn't provide your name or t...Anon,<br /><br />Since you didn't provide your name or the source of the "facts" you cite, I can only assume that you are simply passing along unsubstantiated rumors.<br /><br />The facts I summarized come from a report by Erin Siegal of the Schuster Institute of Investigative Journalism at Brandeis University. http://www.brandeis.edu/investigate/gender/adoption/Guatemala-Karen-Abigail.html<br /><br />I don't know what the Monahans are arguing or will argue. Since they didn't return Karen Abigail when they learned that her parents wanted her, I can only assume either (1) they thought she was better off with them or (2) they didn't care whether she was better off or not. Perhaps you could tell us which is true.Jane Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05669797756463841249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-72675009280596841932011-09-28T23:44:24.086-04:002011-09-28T23:44:24.086-04:00It seems like the facts don't matter all that ...It seems like the facts don't matter all that much to you.<br /><br />1. The abandonment process doesn't allow DNA to be ignored. The first adoption had to be terminated with the US Embassy and the negative result reported. The abandonment process here, according to online postings by their former lawyer, resulted in a police investigation and the girl's pic being published asking the birth family to come forward in two major papers. It was only when these efforts didn't work that a new adoption process could be started.<br /><br />2. Furthermore, how do you know this girl was kidnapped? The birth family here has reported publicly like a dozen different versions of the kidnapping. Look them up in Spanish and English. They are all online. If my child was kidnapped, it would be seared in my memory forever - the one true version. Furthermore, I had a friend who was a DNA expert look at the DNA test results of the kid, woman who presented her at the Embassy, and the alleged birth mother. And as their former lawyer reported online, the woman presenting the child at the Embassy wasn't a stranger, but was a close family member and likely the birth mother's sister. Why hasn't she been arrested or prosecuted??? Why has Sobrevivientes failed to address the family's complicity in this "kidnapping"?<br /><br />3. What evidence do you have that the Monahans are arguing or will argue the child is "better off" being in the U.S.?<br /><br />I don't know what is going on, but it is clear we've only heard a seriously distorted one side of the story.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-28911279224165264542011-09-28T11:24:59.615-04:002011-09-28T11:24:59.615-04:00Yo anon: did you see the sidebar I posted yesterd...Yo anon: did you see the sidebar I posted yesterday? I watched the show last night and may be doing a short post on it. But my cold is still terrible.Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-61986083099413730792011-09-28T10:28:31.309-04:002011-09-28T10:28:31.309-04:00Completely off topic but the Style network is doin...Completely off topic but the Style network is doing a documentary about a sperm donor who meets a few of the 70 children he "donated to." Should be interesting.<br /><br />http://marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/27/sperm-donor-documentary-comes-to-style/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-16131826041317958762011-09-27T18:11:36.399-04:002011-09-27T18:11:36.399-04:00Excellent post! As an adoptee, the first thing I ...Excellent post! As an adoptee, the first thing I thought was that this argument is very similar to the "quality of life" argument. <br /><br />Governments and insurance companies regularly deny necessary medications or assistance to those whom they deem to have a "lesser" quality of life. Most famously, Stephen Hawking, almost completely debilitated by Lou Gehrig's disease, has said that "clearly, there [are] people worse off than me...it shows that one need not lose hope." <br /><br />Who are we to decide to whom a child belongs, where he would be better off? Leave those decisions to God and nature.Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06366141565010190668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-51905035900340886512011-09-27T13:40:58.894-04:002011-09-27T13:40:58.894-04:00Better off?
Too many AP's believe their own p...Better off?<br /><br />Too many AP's believe their own publicity.<br /><br />That's never a good idea.<br /><br />(And might I throw in-do we really have to listen to people don't have the courage to put some kind of name with their words? <br /><br />Give yourself some kind of handle people, declare yourselves, we all have.)Unsigned Masterpiecehttp://unsignedmasterpiece.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-57410688200574760192011-09-26T16:18:42.546-04:002011-09-26T16:18:42.546-04:00I guess this Missouri couple agrees with Sheryl Cr...I guess this Missouri couple agrees with Sheryl Crow who I quote from US Magazine "Wyatt is definitely all mine. Little souls find their way to you whether they're from your womb or someone else's." I guess it just doesn't matter how that little soul finds its way to you. This is such a standard (defensive) line with APs. NPs never have to say anything like this.Robinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-28094801792063841122011-09-26T13:06:01.715-04:002011-09-26T13:06:01.715-04:00From Michelle Harrison: I'm "Unknown"...From Michelle Harrison: I'm "Unknown" and don't know why it came out that way.Michelle Harrisonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-35685350819891164582011-09-26T13:02:07.364-04:002011-09-26T13:02:07.364-04:00@Anon - 7:54 a.m. -
No, that is not what I meant...@Anon - 7:54 a.m. - <br /><br />No, that is not what I meant. I hear bitter and angry - not sure why since you didn't bother to put up a name or a reason for your answer. <br /><br />What I meant is that those two arguments have been used by the "privileged" to explain their greed in obtaining children for adoption and more than just adoption. States get paid to keep kids in foster care, even when it is something that makes no sense.<br /><br />Children need connections with their biological families for positive growth and development. To develop identity, a child needs a reflection of themselves, both physically and psychologically. An adoptive and/or foster home do not supply that.<br /><br />If you choose to believe that I- Ms. Women's Rights - would even begin to think that a man owned me or my kid or that I would condone such ideas, well, your issue, not mine. <br /><br />@Lorraine, thank you for defending us, but this one is choosing to be willfully ignorant. That is not something I bother with.Lorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05815710859859029536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-72883487895021438702011-09-26T08:42:16.078-04:002011-09-26T08:42:16.078-04:00Anonymous: Of course Lori doesn't mean that, a...Anonymous: Of course Lori doesn't mean that, and neither does Jane in the post. Your cynical comment reveals that you, Anonymous, don't understand squat about what it means to not be raised in your biological family because another one has a shiny red tricycle waiting for you. If they can afford the tricycle, they can have you!Lorraine Duskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18285341379272250245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-58026446034878270492011-09-26T07:54:02.374-04:002011-09-26T07:54:02.374-04:00"It takes recreating the belief that no matte..."It takes recreating the belief that no matter what family it is, the child belongs with that family."<br /><br />Of course, let us return to those wonderful days of the 19th century when there were no child welfare laws. Children were owned by the biological father, to do with as he pleased. Ah, the good old days!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-72885536545258712232011-09-26T00:26:39.260-04:002011-09-26T00:26:39.260-04:00I would guess that after many years the child will...I would guess that after many years the child will eventually be reunited with her mother and father. It will have been a bitter fight. The tragedy is that the adoptive parents force the split, rather than having the courage to help their daughter to return to her family, and potentially be part of her life forever. It also seems that the adoptive parents knew from the beginning that something was not right with the papers. How do you not say to your daughter, "These are your parents and they love you. We have a hard road ahead but we are with you for the journey." This IS love, not possession.Dr. Michelle Harrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04400248086225568623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-23549684416330551432011-09-25T19:41:45.226-04:002011-09-25T19:41:45.226-04:00In the United States, not only have the arguments ...In the United States, not only have the arguments "better off" and "in the best interests" been a mainstay in adoption, but they have been used with horrors like the attempt to end the Native American tribes, and as an excuse to steal children for profit from poor families and place them in foster care. This is not new or different. It takes recreating the belief that no matter what family it is, the child belongs with that family.Lorihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05815710859859029536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-574300303008890516.post-53421833460480888642011-09-25T18:30:34.855-04:002011-09-25T18:30:34.855-04:00Great piece, Jane. I applaud you and Lorraine for ...Great piece, Jane. I applaud you and Lorraine for working tiresly for justice for children and their mothers. I hope the aparents do the right thing and bring their illegally adopted daughter to Guatemala and transition her lovingly back to her family. I read a piece by an adoptive mother suggesting they pay for the parents to move here. Really? What ugly Americans we can be. <br />I would buy one of those coins, Sandy. Can you even imagine if a child was obducted in the US and adopted out to a foreign family? The child would be on US soil by now.Barbara Thavishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13646036820037271522noreply@blogger.com