' [Birth Mother] First Mother Forum: The [birth] mother and child reunion, Part 3
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Friday, August 12, 2011

The [birth] mother and child reunion, Part 3

Lorraine & Jane, 1983
A comment came in yesterday from our blogger friend and adoptee Amanda* that needs to be widely read:
"One common thing among adoptees and other hurting people (no, not all adoptees are like this) is that they do not believe they make an impact on those around them. This is usually seen in trauma
survivors or individuals with low self-esteem. There was a time in their life where they felt helpless and believe they have lost their ability to make a difference. Or they believe they are invisible and truly don't matter.

"These individuals do not have an understanding of the true impact of how what they do or say makes others feel. I suppose the best response is gentle honesty, so that they can grow to become more aware.

"There is another reaction to bad experiences and low self-esteem: self blame and over-estimating your impact on others. Every missed phone call is perceived as being in response to something you've done wrong--when in reality, the person might just have forgotten or was busy at the moment and it wasn't because the other person did something wrong at all. The fears of rejection come into play where those who fear rejection may end up rejecting someone else to avoid the inevitability of being rejected themselves. Or they need to be reassured that the other person still loves them and won't leave and in turn, the other person feels mistrusted or overwhelmed."
You that that right, Amanda. She analyzed both the dynamic at work of adoptees who do not grasp how much their going away can hurt--they have been living like this all their lives, so what we think of as rejection may seem normal to them; and conversely, we first mothers may be overly sensitive to every inattention. Don't misunderstand, I am not talking about the kind of abuse some natural mothers after reunion endure until they stop putting up wit it; I am talking about the simple kinds of things that mothers put up with from their kept children without thinking about it, or friends and lovers.

We do need to give the other party a lot of room. And then--for both sides--decide when abuse or unkind words are simply too much to put up with.

For instance, a few years after my daughter Jane and I were reunited, she was visiting again, this time for most of the summer. Horseback riding is something that I love, and though she had never done it, she said she would like to. This seemed lie something we could have a good time sharing, but I knew she needed a few professional lessons before it would be safe to go riding. I live in a beautiful part of the country, but because it is beautiful and near New York City, it's also expensive, and riding lessons out here are very expensive. My husband and I do not have what people call "disposable" income. We're both writers and live pretty close to the bone. However, we went ahead and signed Jane up for a couple lessons.

At one of them I approached her on her horse and reached out to rub the horse's head. He turned his head and tried to bite me. "Opps, he tried to bite me," I said, pulling back before he chomped on a finger.

"I wouldn't care if he did," came out of nowhere from Jane. We hadn't been fighting. I think it was an honest comment on how she felt inside: angry at being given up for adoption, angry that I had not raised her, angry that she felt abandoned by me. I got it, but I knew I was not going to put up with that.

After we drove home from the stable in silence I told her that if she felt that way she shouldn't stay for the rest of the summer, and that she could go home immediately.

She said she wanted to stay. She did, and we had a good summer. There are times when natural mothers--and adoptees, if the situation is reversed--have to speak up and at least aim for a normal relationship, and not be disrespected and abused. This is First Mother Forum, but I have heard plenty of stories from adoptees to know that some mothers are simply not good people, or able to conduct a reasonable relationship that is not hurtful to the adoptee.
                                                                   
Another one of the commenters said that the relationship with her surrendered child got a lot whole lot better after she had a blow up at that person for their bad behavior. The same thing happened to a birth mother friend of mine: once she got mad at her daughter after years of absorbing some petty and negative behavior, once she actually blew her temper--the air was cleared. While they did not talk for months after that, when they did, it was from a better place. Sometimes we--natural mothers and adoptees--have to take a chance and speak up and tell the truth about how we are reacting to what has been said, or done. It doesn't always work out they way you would like it, but it going to feel better than being a doormat. --lorraine
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* Amanda blogs at Declassified Adoptee. Love her blog. 
If  you just got here, you may be interested in
 Why birth/natural mother-adoptee reunions go awry
and When birth/natural mother-adoptee reunions go awry, Part 2 
---------------------------

Beneath a Tall TreeBeneath a Tall Tree is the story of adoptee Jean Strauss's quest to unearth her past--it's touching, at times amusing. It's a great read for adoptees in search for their birth/natural parents, or thinking about searching for them. Jean is also the filmmaker who produced: ADOPTED: for the life of me, a poignant film that brings home the awful inequity of closed records and the meaning of one's biological family. Pass the Kleenex. ****

COMMENTS CLOSED

51 comments :

  1. What an adorable picture of you two. I had a son, not a daughter, so guys aren't always into the feeling stuff and I am glad my Dad was still alive to help me in the beginning. If my son wouldn't answer my calls or come to a family gathering, my Dad would show me how to overlook a lot and he would just say"He's busy,he doesn't want to hang around with his mother all the time."

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  2. Lorraine, I love that picture of you and Jane. You look so happy and I love how her arm is resting on your leg.

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  3. Lisa: I loved that part of the picture too, with her arm in my leg. The other thing--and you can hardly see this--is that the sandles she has on are ones she came with from Madison, Wi. Well, they were made by Famaolore, a small Italian company. Since I have always had trouble getting shoes to fit (AAAA width), this was a company I knew could fit me, I went to their store in Manhattan to buy sandles--and I had the EXACT SAME SHOE in a half size smaller than her. They had at least six different styles that year. Jane did not recognize what the odds were that I would have the exact same shoe.

    Sychonicity at its absurd finest.

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  4. This may be relevant http://outofthefog.net/Disorders/CPTSD.html
    Nice shoes!

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  5. Yo Von, that is amazing. And food for a new post. I am sure I will get pilloried for making the connection but the behaviors listed are recognizable right here at FMF.

    God, adoption is so sad and can be so harmful.

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  6. I see that Von has left a link about people with personality disorders. This are serious mental illnesses listed in the DSM-IV and are nothing to play around with. Having known someone with Borderline Personality for over 20 years, I would urge people NOT to self-diagnose but to seek medical attention if they think they have many of the symptoms on the list. I am aware of no research that links adoption with personality disorder such as BPD or narcissism; however, the symptoms are linked to early childhood abuse. Please don't be your own doctor. Leave it in the hands of a psychoiatrist (only a shrink can diagnose this stuff).

    I will be honest. Yes, I have seen projection, hoovering, transference, rage, gradiosity, and meltdowns in the adoption blogosphere and suspect some people may have undiagnosed personality disorders and that is a shame. But I don't think adoptees have it any easier in reunion than first parents do (harder, most likely) and don't think their frustration and ambivalence in reunion should be used to suggest that they have a pathological disorder which you can then go and blame on adoption (and yes, I know adoption has plenty of problems with it). That's a big leap and a big label. If you ever have lived close up with someone with a bona fide personality dosorder, you'll know what I'm talking about.

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  7. While I absolutely agree that self diagnosis can be a dangerous route to follow there are no links with adoption and any major disorders, syndromes etc because no reliable, major studies have been undertaken.The loss and damage of adoption have not yet been taken seriously.Nor has the seriousness of taking the step towards reunion.It is not for the unprepared, unwary or ill advised.No-one has it easy in reunion, the largely unexplored area where adequate preparation could possibly make the outcomes more reliable.
    Lorraine I agree, there is so much harm in adoption and so much to put right.
    Yes BDP Supporter I have lived up close with people with bona fide personality disorders and yes I have worked with people with psychiatric disorders and with people in reunion.

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  8. Von, I agree that no major studies have been done linking adoption to personality disorders and that there is plenty wrong with adoption. I can see certain specific adoption experiences making certaqin children more vulnerable to developing these disorders, which are, after all, strange and damaging coping mechanisms. The problem is that when we look at a group of people labeled "adoptees" and link this to PDs, we also have to consider genetic influences (widely held to be involved), in utero influences, prematurity, early childhood, etc. There's just so much going on that it would be difficult to separate "adoption" from all those other effects.

    In any case, not meaning to harp. I simply urge people not to read a list but to get diagnosed or ask their loved one to get diagnosed if they suspect something.

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  9. Von wrote:"Nor has the seriousness of taking the step towards reunion.It is not for the unprepared, unwary or ill advised."

    Well said! When I first realized there was a possibility that I could actually find my natural mother, I was so excited (and nervous) that it was easy to throw caution to the wind.

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  10. Some of the behaviors listed at the site Vin suggests are so familiar to us who deal with adoptees after reunion, and some of the reasons given for this kind of reaction are common to all adoptees. Let's start with disempowerment, and no way to change the situation.

    BPD supporter, who are you, what is your real life experience in dealing with adoptees and first mothers? Many of us have been badly traumatized, to a greater or lesser degree, depending on our own makeup.

    You express no connection to adoption except from reading blogs.

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  11. Indeed we do need to consider genetic factors and in the adopted life place great importance on it. Those of us familiar with the world of adoption can perhaps be given credit for being the sort of survivors who seek specialist help when we need it, having a great deal of common sense and above all caring for each other and in many cases having the sort of trusting relationship that ensures a link is not given to someone who will be unable to use it wisely.
    There is indeed much going on in adoption and a great deal to learn about the damage it causes. Hopefully when professionals take it as seriously as you are BPDS we may find some genuine evidence and helpful information and ideas on how best to proceed to repair the damage and live with the results of adoption, however caused.

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  12. The problem is BPDS "that when we look at a group of people labeled "adoptees" and link this to PDs, we also have to consider genetic influences (widely held to be involved), in utero influences, prematurity, early childhood, etc. There's just so much going on that it would be difficult to separate "adoption" from all those other effects" we find that most of those influences are in fact connected to adoption.How do you explain the high percentages of adult adoptees in PU's, prison, institutions such as the army and those struggling daily with their lives?

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  13. So all adopted people are more likely than non-adopted people to suffer from serious personality disorders? First mothers as well?

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  14. I'm an adoptive parent and long-time reader of FMF with a loved one with BPD.

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  15. Von wrote, "those of us familiar with the world of adoption can perhaps be given credit for being the sort of survivors who seek specialist help when we need it..."

    How true this is, yet the adoption issue is routinely dismissed. Can you imagine going to a shrink and saying, "hey, X happened to me and I need help dealing with the complicated emotions this event has caused in my life"....and then the shrink completely disregards event X as a non-issue.

    This is how most people treat both adoptees and natural mothers. Worse, we are expected to be HAPPY about the very event that we know is haunting us. This leads to many of us self-diagnosing and/or seeking help from the only people who understand....adoptees and mothers.

    Great post by Amanda, BTW, much food for thought.

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  16. "institutions such as the army "

    How nice for our fighting forces and veterans to be grouped with prisoners and mental patients. Adopted or not, that is an insult.

    I have too many friends with kids in the military now, and too many whose fathers and grandfathers were honorable veterans, as well as veterans in my own family,
    to let this pass.

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  17. Yes, anonymous, first natural mothers as well. More likely to seek psychological counseling, more likely to be institutionalized also. We have covered this before at the blog, can't repeat this all now. See our response to the Center for American Progess on the side bar.

    Response to The Adoption Option of the Center for ...

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  18. Von said:

    "How do you explain the high percentages of adult adoptees in PU's, prison, institutions such as the army and those struggling daily with their lives?"

    Yes, adoptees have a higher risk of psychological problems. But you mentioned the *personality disorders* specifically, chronic psychiatric disorders that make it almost impossible for the person to sustain any interpersonal relationships.

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  19. Thanks for linking to me, Lorraine :-)

    I wanted to expand a bit that by "trauma survivors," I meant everyone who survives a trauma (without getting into the Primal Wound, which I will no longer debate with people), adoption-related or not. First mothers as well as adoptees can have the same issues in reunion. People of all traumatic experiences may over or under-estimate their impact on the world around them because of their extreme experience of helplessness, and thus relationship complications can occur when they are not aware of how this subsequently impacts those around them.

    Communication is key.

    I am finishing up "Coming Home to Self," and in a recent page I just finished, Verrier suggests that when problems in reunion occur, whatever the first parent is feeling at the time, the adoptee is feeling it 100 times over (an attempt at getting us to empathize with each other). Without intending to inflame anyone by asking this specific question, I am wondering what others think about that?

    Re: personality disorders....

    In my very (very) humble opinion, I wanted to chime in that I do believe that adoptees may be at a disposition to experience anxiety and depression. I won't necessarily say a "greater" disposition, because research has pointed to depression and anxiety being both significant and not significant (as compared to the general population), depending on different factors (e.g. age, awareness of adoption issues) etc. Depression and anxiety are also becoming increasingly common among the general population itself. This is one area that has been researched quite a lot--some research done appropriately and others not.

    There is a bit of research that has pointed to pre-natal exposures (e.g. mother's poor diet, drug use, anxiety and general wellness) being linked to problems during a persons life. I have not read where this has been linked to adoption too often, except when Brodzinsky and Schechter have written.

    However, I also agree that there is little research connecting adoptees to personality disorders. From my brief time studying Abnormal Psychology, I am under the impression that personality disorders are a combination of both nature and nuture. Someone is born genetically predisposed to having a certain personality disorder, which may or may not manifest, depending on their experiences in childhood. We can see this in biologically-raised families where a parent who has a personality disorder is also the one nurturing the child they've produced with a predisposition to have inherited that disorder.

    That being said, this may be the difficulty in mental health research with adoptees (research that has thus far largely been obsessed with adolescent psychiatric disorders and adoption). Adoptees with a predisposition to having a personality disorder may be at a greater risk of suffering with that personality disorder because of the added stress that adoption can bring to psychosocial development. But with the lack of connection between nature and nuture in adoption makes this difficult to discover correlation.

    Someone with depression, anxiety, or other mental health diagnoses does not necessarily have a personality disorder. Like Von, BPD, and others have said, personality disorders must absolutely be diagnosed by a competent professional. They cannot be self-diagnosed.


    (That being said, I am not a professional. Just a person very interested in mental and behavioral health).

    :-)

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  20. 'First mothers as well as adoptees can have the same issues in reunion.' May I just point out that the issues are similar but never the same, that perception can cause all sorts of difficulties as we have recently seen, when mothers believe their experience mirrors ours.Trauma is trauma but it is not all the same.
    maryanne said - 'How nice for our fighting forces and veterans to be grouped with prisoners and mental patients. Adopted or not, that is an insult.' Whether you like it or not it is true certainly for our forces.I find it interesting that you are still prepared to see being grouped with the adopted as stigmatising, somehow inferior and an insult for the forces to admit adoptees. Some adoptees would find that insulting.Some would find your comment a slight distraction in a worthwhile discussion on a very necessary area to progress.

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  21. It is not at all surprising that first mothers and adoptees have more diagnoses of anxiety and depression than the rest of the population, as we both have two things in common that seems to cause said disorders - hopelessness and separation. Perhaps it is just undiagnosed Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder?

    It's interesting reading the comments here over the past year or so (since I've accepted that my adoption really did some damage). No judgement at all, I'm no professional, but all of us adoptees and first mothers seem to express varying degrees of anxiety, sadness, fear, anger, feelings of worthlessness and hopelessness.

    Reminds me of a playground chant: "Wouldn't wanna be ya!" Too late for me, friends.

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  22. Well of course PBD Supporter is an adoptive parent! Why am I not surprised :/
    I know far too many adoptees who present with the symptoms of C-PTSD to dismiss the connection regardless of genetic influences. We adult adoptees lead the research on the affects of adoption as we are constantly trying to work out how to heal ourselves and each other and get on with our messed up lives. I am also one of those adoptees who believes I have C-PTSD and have sought self diagnosis of what is wrong with me because the so called "professionals" dismiss my adoption issues. I am ADOPTED not STUPID!
    It does not excuse cruel or unkind behaviour though. Though it is actually my mother who has been cruel and unkind to me. She denies giving birth to me and told me to "grow up, get over it and get some counselling" Yes Ma.... LOTS of counselling thanks to you! Sigh.... her loss as I'm a really nice person and her grandkids are perfect!

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  23. I have posted before, respectfully, but am i understanding that you are saying we as adoptees have personality disorders? I dont think abusing a birthmother is the right way to go, but I dont believe that "familiar to us who deal with adoptees after reunion" a little. these adoptees you speak of are your children. I want to think that you guys are just working through things instead of trying to make the adoptees out to be the bad guys, which is wrong. I come on this site to fine insight into my own birthmother/reunion and I feel that these angry adoptees have no right to abuse anyone, but we arent all like that. And a lot of you are bse era birthmoms, not all are (mine wasn't) are you planning on writing a post that deals with any negative aspects in reunion by birthmoms, or is it all the adoptee?

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  24. You're right, anon, adoptees are our children. I am sorry to admit that sometimes I put this fact aside in the heat of arguments with my surrendered daughter.

    I don't think mothers who post here think of adoptees as bad guys. They simply write truthfully of their experiences. Some are blessed with sensitive, caring children. Others have children who are mean to them or ignore them. My heart goes out to Lee who commented here. Lee's daughter has been so severely brain washed by her adoptive parents and church that she tries to keep her mother out of her life by fancying that God ordained her adoption.

    I know too that some mothers reject their children. I just want to grab those mothers, give them a good shake, and tell them they owe it to their child to get past their shame and let their children into their lives.

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  25. Think you'll find other aspects anonymous if you check my blog.This blog has always been, it seems to me a place for discussion, one of the very few where adoptees and mothers can express their views honestly with respect.

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  26. OK guys, so I'm not one to buy into the PTSD and Primal Wound theories. But many do, so let's go with that for a moment. What therapeutic modalities have you tried? What works? "Inner Child" was big in the 80's and might have relevance for those dealing with adoption issues. My husband is a therapist that treats traumatized kids, and his company trains all the therapists to use EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing). This is a newer technique that has shown real promise for PTSD. I am wondering if there is a 12-step model for adoption recovery yet. This system has traditionally been for addiction recovery, but it is showing real success in treating other problems. I think the 12-step model might be a good fit for what some first mothers and adoptees report they experience.

    What helps you heal from your issues?

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  27. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-dangers-self-diagnosis/201005/the-dangers-self-diagnosis

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  28. ."I find it interesting that you are still prepared to see being grouped with the adopted as stigmatising, somehow inferior and an insult for the forces to admit adoptees. Some adoptees would find that insulting."

    What???? Von you completely misunderstood my comment, or maybe I misunderstood yours. I do not see anything at all stigmatizing about adoptees in the armed forces. They should be just as proud as anyone of serving their country honorably. Several friends of mine have sons they found who have proudly served. Adopted status has nothing to do with being admitted to the armed forces nor should it.

    What I found insulting was comparing our armed forces, adopted or not, to incarcerated criminals and patients with mental illness, the two other areas you cited as having more than their share of adoptees. Why include the army with those other areas when being in the service does not imply either illness or criminality? Not questioning higher numbers of adoptees in therapy or jail, but why was the army included as an example of bad outcome? That's all.

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  29. maryanne I don't believe in that being a 'bad outcome' just an outcome, a fact.
    I'm hearing good reports with EMDR currently but that was so for CBT too until it started to go out of favour.I'm not keen on one size fits all modalities, what works best is tailormade for the individual.
    I, like Amanda no longer find it productive to discuss the Primal Wound hypothesis with those who have no knowledge of it personally.
    PTSS is very common and well documented amongst veterans,accident victims and many others.We have a long way to go before suitable help will be available for mothers or adoptees unfortunately.

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  30. Von, you're right, I had meant to say that things like pulling away, the inability to connect, so on and so forth, are some of the results that we share in common. But you are correct, the roots of why we do these things, the experiences, are not the same.

    RE: self diagnosis

    I an one of the ones who made a comment about self-diagnosis. I will clarify that the reason I said personality disorders cannot be self-diagnosed (PTSD is not a personality disorder though does overlap with BPD in some ways) is because one of the problems with personality disorders is that the person is not very self-aware. If one has a very small window of self-awareness, their ability to determine an accuarate diagnosis without the feedback from a professional is limitted.

    The lack of adoption-competent professionals out there is sad and shocking. But I encourage anyone who needs it to keep trying to find help and support (I suggest that not being a professional myself, mind you).

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  31. Von, I still do not understand why you included being in the army with the other two very negative examples you picked, and where the subject was damage to adoptees. Why not "many adoptees are in the arts"? That seems to be true among those I know, singers, actors, poets, writers, dancers. I had not heard before that many adoptees join the service, which is an interesting fact but not a negative one.

    Von wrote:I, like Amanda no longer find it productive to discuss the Primal Wound hypothesis with those who have no knowledge of it personally."

    That is absolutely fine with me:-)

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  32. You'll note that PTSD is now named PTSS..a syndrome rather than a disorder.
    maryanne it is very hard to enumerate all those talented adoptees who do amazing, creative,brilliant, achieving, surviving things out there in the world where they measure themselves against non-adoptees and are measured.There are no figures for the arts, business, writing, mountain climbing etc.We know from our standup comic contacts that there are many adoptees mining the rich seam of adoption.None of those people are part of institutions, you'll note the examples I gave are.My point being that adoptees and others who suffer abuse or damage of various sorts sometimes gravitate towards institutions, either because they have no choice and are as used to be said in the '70's 'mad,bad or sad'.Institutional life offers a type of security, regulation and for some a replacement for family, where they feel safer than they might do without that regulated life.
    I certainly am glad maryanne to hear we have heard the last word from you on the primal wound!

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  33. "I certainly am glad maryanne to hear we have heard the last word from you on the primal wound!"

    I would be equally glad to have heard the last word on that subject from anyone. It is not worth the attacks it engendered from true believers. You are quite welcome to it. Carry on, Von.

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  34. @ Amanda, "I am finishing up "Coming Home to Self," and in a recent page I just finished, Verrier suggests that when problems in reunion occur, whatever the first parent is feeling at the time, the adoptee is feeling it 100 times over"

    Is "100 times over" verbatim?

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  35. Is "100 times over" verbatim?

    yep

    If I have time to go back and find where it was in the book, I will post it.

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  36. Megan,

    I understand that discussing various trauma theories surrounding adoption may make it appear as though adoptees are content to be misereable, refusing the path to their own healing. This is simply not the case. Most of the adoptees I know are strong individuals who have, with amazing resilience, put themselves on the path to healing and wholeness. Von's blog is one of the first blogs who encouraged me to do the same. Not mentioning all the ways one can heal doesn't mean we're ignoring them.

    "Coming Home to Self" by the author of The Primal Wound, is a 500-some page book all about various ways by which Verrier believes it can be healed, though I do not agree with all of her suggestions. EMDR is mentioned in the third to last chapter. Many of us have also found great solice in works by Lifton, Russell, Brodzinsky, Schechter, and more.

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  37. "Some are blessed with sensitive, caring children. Others have children who are mean to them or ignore them. My heart goes out to Lee who commented here. Lee's daughter has been so severely brain washed by her adoptive parents and church that she tries to keep her mother out of her life by fancying that God ordained her adoption."

    Exactly what happened to me... exactly. I was conned out of my son with lies and promises of a slammed shut open adoption after only a few years, only to have his adopters (who deliberately and with malice did this to me) brainwash him to believe that "god put him where he was supposed to be."

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  38. Thank you Amanda for your kind words. With my struggles mostly behind me I wish I'd been where you are at your age.It gives me such great hope for our future.
    Sadly Stephanie there are many unhappy adoption stories when you live in a country where adopters believe in saving adoptees for god and the adoption industry is so large, lucrative and enethical.I am sorry you are struggling and hope you are getting support from others in your situation.
    "Some are blessed with sensitive, caring children. Others have children who are mean to them or ignore them" and so many adoptees can say the same of their mothers and/or adopters! What a tragic mess!
    Thank you maryanne for giving adoptees the last word on the primal wound, it is in appropriate hands.

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  39. Amanda said "If I have time to go back and find where it was in the book, I will post it."
    Thanks Amanda, I'd appreciate it.

    You asked for opinions, so here is mine based on what I know so far.
    While I realize Verrier's intention is to get birthmothers and adoptees to empathize with each other, it seems to me that her claim (that adoptees' feelings in response to problems in reunion are "100 times" greater/stronger/more intense/whatever than those of birthparents) is counterproductive rather than helpful. I think that there are other, better ways in which she could have made the point that she was presumably trying to get across.

    I would also like to know how she substantiates that claim. Maybe in a footnote, or some other part of the book, perhaps?

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  40. Adoptees begin their life with nothing, often based on lies and secrets and not even the best adoptive parents can compensate for that.
    A birthmother has an entire family history, connections and memories behind her, be they good or bad she has them.

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  41. I agree, anon 17 August. A baby's feelings are inchoate, which makes it much more complicated for adoptees to deal with their loss.

    However, that does not excuse Verrier for writing such a thoughtless thing. It is not going to help any adoptee who takes her literally (and many do) feel empathy for their mother.
    It makes one wonder if that's what she really wants.

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  42. I think Verrier was just using hyperbole in her writing. Sloppy writing, can not be taken for a "fact" because how could anybody know that? And besides, the source of the feelings--this is my child!versus This is my mother!--while similar are different and the individual having them is coming out of such a different experience that they would of course...be different.

    I'm going to give Verrier a pass on this one. She overwrote and no one said, hey wait a minute...until it got here.

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  43. Lo wrote "Im going to give Verrier a pass on this one. She overwrote and no one said, hey wait a minute...until it got here."

    This is one of the dangers of unedited or poorly edited self-publishing, and whatever one thinks of her theory, a reason Verrier's books are not known or respected outside of the adoption reform comunity.

    I knew someone who wrote what I thought was an excellent, well-written book which was edited and published by a major publishing house. Years later this person wrote a self-published book, and it was awful. It cried out for judicious editing. That made me realize what a big difference a good editor can make, regardless of the skill of the author.

    Not that some self-published work is not very good, and today it is sometimes the only way to go, but often the lack of editing shows, and prevents good ideas from being taken seriously.

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  44. "She overwrote and no one said, hey wait aminute...until it got here."

    Thumbs up to "here" then.
    And good for Amanda for noticing, drawing attention to it and asking for opinions.

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  45. Whatever you might say about the way The Primal Wound is written I'll bet most of us would like to have a book that is as talked about, widely read by readers as affected by it as they are and that keeps on selling!

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  46. 'It is not going to help any adoptee who takes her literally (and many do) feel empathy for their mother.' I've always found empathy was a matter affected by maturity and experience not by reading books.Many of us who have read the book in question feel a great deal of empathy towards our mothers and towards other mothers of adoption loss.

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  47. "Whatever you might say about the way The Primal Wound is written I'll bet most of us would like to have a book that is as talked about, widely read by readers as affected by it as they are and that keeps on selling!"

    Speak for yourself, Von.

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  48. Since I, as a mother who surrendered and not an adoptee, are forbidden to have an opinion on Primal Wound, and the book was written by an adoptive mother who is not an adoptee, are other adoptive mothers allowed an opinion? What about adoptees who disagree? They are still adoptees living the adoption experience.

    Or is total agreement with the premise really the only criteria for having an opinion no matter who expresses it? Not an opinion on your personal experience or beliefs, but on a book.

    I can't stand Danielle Steele. Many people love her books. Nobody is coming to blows over this.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Suggest you ask an adoptee who disagrees maryanne.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Ask them what? Disagrees with whom, me, you, Verrier? That is not an answer.

    ReplyDelete

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