Demons in Adoption

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Tuesday, August 21, 2012

Akin, GOP to women: We are in charge of your bodies, no exceptions for rape

Lorraine
The current rage over rape and abortion set in motion by the incredibly inane comment of Todd Akin, GOP Senate candidate in Missouri, has set us to thinking about our own adamantly pro-choice position: a woman's body is her own and it is her own to decide if she will or will not carry a fertilized egg to term, that is, have the baby.

Akin's ignorance has upped the debate over whether abortion is ever palatable to some, because all he really did is state what true anti-choice zealots believe: that all and any abortion (and that includes the Morning-After Pill and IUDs) methods, regardless of the timing, are Go-directly-to-hell wrong.
Akin said that in cases of "legitimate rape," a woman's body knows that there is a problem and "tries to shut the whole thing down" to prevent the pregnancy, thus saying it was highly unlikely that a woman who was "legitimately" raped (i.e., forceably) will get pregnant.

Would that it were so.

A MOTHER'S YEARNING DESPITE...
I myself tried to obtain an abortion in 1965 when I was pregnant--though not by rape--and wrote about this openly when I published my memoir, Birthmark, in 1979. But the desire for an abortion did not translate into less love for my baby once I knew she would be born, nor lessen the bone-deep desire I had to keep her fast to my breast and raise her. Yet the times were so different then, I was a different person then, and I made the incalculable error to relinquish her for adoption, and live to rue that day. My desire to have kept her turned me into a passionate supporter of open records for all--adoptees and natural mothers--and someone who is virulently anti-adoption and pro-choice. Having lived this life for all these many years, I know full well the cost I and the other women like me paid in tears and guilt for having relinquished our children. I have made peace with my life, but there it is: a life I wish never had any brush with adoption.

And just as I loved my daughter once she was born, so do woman who give birth to children conceived in rape and incest. Maine adoptees have access to their original records today largely due to the unflagging advocacy of Roberta Beavers, a legislator who gave birth after a rape, relinquished her child to adoption, and reunited with him. Later she became an advocate for adoption reform and got herself elected to the Maine legislature. Bobbie Beavers is not alone as a once rape-victim who welcomed back her child, innocent of all crime related to his conception.

WHAT OF CHILDREN OF RAPE?
But what of the children born after a rape? One of our friends and favorite bloggers, Amanda at Declassified Adoptee, has this to say:
"Without fail, someone, somewhere, throws individuals conceived from rape, and our mothers, under the bus.  Every single time.

When a Conservative says, 'I believe we should outlaw abortion because I respect all life and I think fetuses are people....Oh, except in the case of rape!' what they are saying is that fetuses are life and are people--except in the case of rape."
Liberals have to stop nodding knowingly when these exceptions to abortion are factored in seemingly to not make the anti-abortion edict so harsh. But they should not be a handy place for conservatives to duck behind. With abortion, let us be either up or down: a young teen or a woman has a right to control her own body, or she doesn't. No one should have to have another make a decision about one's body. No one should force another to have a child grow in her body against her will. As Gloria Steinem once famously wrote: If men had abortions, it would be a sacrament.  

When I see slogans such as "Adoption not abortion," I want to scream and rip them down. The difference between the two is not a matter of a few letters, but the difference between a lifetime of guilt and one not mired in unanswered questions and lingering sorrow and desire to know, to raise, to love as one's own because he is one's own, a child. As a women who went to 12 years of Catholic school, I know that one can have an abortion and go to confession and be absolved of what Catholics consider a sin; as a woman who relinquished a child, I know that leads to a lifetime of hell on earth.

ABORTION VS. GIVING UP A CHILD
While the Republican position has pretty much always been anti-abortion, it came to a head once before, under GOP President Ronald Reagan, when he directed his Surgeon General, C. Everett Koop, to write a report about the supposedly negative long-term effects of an abortion. Koop refused, but a report was issued anyway under the directive of Reagan in 1989, with Koop's name on it. Thought he has tried to disavow himself from it the report, the Koop Report is what people generally remember. It would be better called the "Republican Ronald Reagan Report."

While certainly women who wanted to have the child will grieve if they choose abortion, but the psychological impact cannot be compared to the lifelong guilt and sorrow that giving up a child for adoption wreaks upon a woman's life. I remember a Park Avenue psychologist who was dating a friend of mine once saying to her: "You don't want to end up like Lorraine, do you?" She was pregnant with his child; she had an abortion instead of "ending up like Lorraine." He knew whereof he spoke. I speak here only with my personal experience, but the women I know who have had abortions have experienced only relief when it is over. I am sure that an abortion, any abortion, is a sobering experience, but women must have the right to control their own bodies and fates. For most, an abortion will be just that: a sobering experience, not a lifelong psychological burden that impacts every aspect of their lives.

THOSE HAPPY-DAPPY ADOPTION BLOGS
Even the "I LOVE ADOPTION" blogs written by first mothers who are conservative and religious emanate no great calm or quietude about their missing children. At the same time they are proclaiming their good fortune or, "I love adoption" as one recently wrote to us in a comment, or how at peace they are with their decision to give up a child, they confess to wonder and worry--How is my Johnny? How am I doing today? His birthday is next week. Unless these women are truly missing the mothering gene--and it does happen in the animal kingdom, why not us?--their fervent denials and happy-dappy outpourings ring false. If these bee-mommies were so totally at peace with losing their children to adoption, they wouldn't be blogging about it.

Akin may yet yield to political pressure from his own party and quit the race. I hope he stays put because we women will tromp him. It is worth noting that Akin and Ryan jointly have their name on an anti-abortion bill Yet despite the party's urging Akin to bow out, despite the Romney campaign's recent announcement that the Romney/Ryan ticket supports abortion in cases of rape, even though Ryan previously opposed the exception. However, CNN is reporting that the Republican platform once again is anti-abortion, no exceptions. No mention of rape or incest. At least that is the honest approach. And if that's the case, there is no reason for Akin to bow out.--lorraine 

Late addition: Akin missed the deadline for dropping out of the race on Tuesday evening; it would now take a court order to get him off the ballot. He made the round of morning shows on Wednesday stating that his is staying in the race. Veep candidate Ryan may be muzzled on this issue, but he authored a "personhood" bill with Akin that affirms that from the moment of fertilization onward, “every human being shall have all the legal and constitutional attributes and privileges of personhood.” It then says that Congress and the states have the “authority” to protect all human beings — again, defined as human life from fertilization onward — residing in their jurisdictions. By that logic, a rapist who impregnated a victim could have the right to sue her if she decided not to carry that baby and to have an abortion.
----------------------------

  See Declassified Adoptee:  Dear Senator Akin ALL Rape IS Violence 

Birthmark
"...Any adoptee who has the emotional wherewithal to want to see how the mother who gave them life may have felt about it should read this book."--Amazon 

From FMF: Response to The Adoption Option



For an analytical look at how politics shapes adoption and abortion:
Beggars and Choosers: How the Politics of Choice Shapes Adoption, Abortion, and Welfare in the United States is a thorough feminist history of public policy on abortion since Roe v. Wade, as well as a reconsideration of recent political strategy.

Rickie Solinger also advances a troubling economic thesis about adoption, defined roughly as "the transfer of babies from women of one social classification to women in a higher social classification or group." Bracing and well-researched, Solinger's arguments should be considered by anyone working for women's and children's rights. --Regina Marler 
 
Solinger's third book on reproductive rights hinges on a crucial semantic shift in the 1970s from "abortion rights" to the softer, less direct "choice" and "pro-choice," itself an attempt to shake off the awkward "pro-abortion" tag. While "rights" are undeniable, Solinger asserts, "choice" is a market-driven concept. "Historical distinctions between women of color and white women, between poor and middle-class women, have been reproduced and institutionalized in the "era of choice," she continues, "in part by defining some groups of women as good choice makers, some as bad."






37 comments :

  1. Either one has choice over their body or they don’t. A woman shouldn’t have to justify what they want do with their own body or how they want spend the rest of their life to anyone. Even if they want to raise a child conceived by rape…it is HER CHOICE.

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  2. Rape is used in war to perpetrate violence and control a population by fear. Can you imagine telling a 12 year old girl in the Congo (or any woman anywhere) that the pregnancy that resulted was because she was not truly raped?

    Akin has a political agenda and it seems that he has no heart for victims of violence, or at least female victims.

    How great would it be if our bodies could shut down when violent acts were inflicted to them. If you were mugged and it scared you then your body could stop your heart from a massive heart attack.

    If you were sexually abused by someone with an STD your immune system could just prevent that infection.

    Too bad science doesn't support the idiotic comments he made.

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  4. I've talked with several women who grieve the children they lost to abortion. I don't think for those women that being absolved by a priest automatically makes their grief go away.

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  5. I agree with you, any exception based on the identity of the sire makes any abortion ban into something which is clearly intended to keep women under control.

    Nevertheless, don't you think it's nice of Akin to reveal views many goppers have?

    Now to be fair to Akin, he sounds like one whas has heard the bell sound, but cannot imagine where the tongue can be found. What he says is not COMPLETE nonsense, nonsense it is, but elements of misunderstood facts, distorted to a great degree, are recognizable in the nonsense.

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  6. Dana:

    Of course just being absolved by a priest doesn't make the grief go away if you are conflicted by having an abortion. But there is no indication that the vast majority of women who have abortions have any long-term grief to carry, in contrast to the women who give up their children to adoption. I'm going to add this to the post. Thanks for pointing it out.

    Theodore, what is the sane part of Akin's comments? That rape is not "legitimate" unless the woman fights back? Is that a definition of "legitimate" rape? I was raped when I was in my twenties by someone whom I let into my apartment because we had dated previously; and he was pounding on my apartment door in the hallway and waking the neighbors; he forced himself on me. I submitted before he began hitting me. He was a large and strong man and I was afraid of him. In Akin's mind that would not be a legitimate rape, but in my mind I know I had sex against my will. When these discussions arise that is the first horrible memory I have, and it still makes me shudder a bit. So indeed, tell me what is the "not COMPLETE nonsense" of Akin's comments? That a woman's body shuts down and will not become impregnated when she is raped, that is, "legitimately" raped. That is utter nonsense.

    What about your Dear Readers, any of you been "illigitimately" raped? Or even "legitimately"?

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  7. The blog has been updated in two places.

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  8. I love it when a politician's medieval side is revealed. It tells us who he really is. I think Akin's underlying premise is that women who become pregnant from a rape are really just liars who got caught screwing around and are using the rape story as a cover for being a whore. A lot of people still think this way.

    Thank god I've never been raped, but I have been in some threatening situations that were mitigated by the presence of some honorable and decent men.

    Would I ever have an abortion? It would depend on the circumstances which might include a thousand things to consider...and I demand the freedom to consider those things on my own, without governmental interference.

    I really resent the idea that women have abortions willy-nilly, like getting their teeth whitened. Most think it over very carefully and make the best decision they can. No one needs to know the details of why a woman chooses to abort, especially not some slimy politician.

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  9. I have a lot of problems with those who say they oppose abortion except in cases of rape or incest. They're making a moral judgement on the mother--as long as the pregnancy wasn't her fault (from a legitimate rape--not some dating situation which got out of hand), she can have an abortion. Of if the child was conceived through incest, abortion is okay because the child might be defective (remember the stuff about bad recessive genes from high school biology) and no would want to adopt the kid.

    Abortion is abortion is abortion regardless of the circumstances of the pregnancy. I strongly believe it should continue to be legal. Like Lorraine, the "adoption, not abortion" ads drive me nuts. I know many women who have had abortions and they all say the same thing: "it was unpleasant but it's over and I rarely think about it." I don't know any mother who lost her child to adoption who doesn't think of the child frequently, often with a heavy heart.

    The decision whether to carry a pregnancy to term should be that of the carrier, not dimwitted politicians like Rep. Akin or old men in Rome, Salt Lake city, or Lynchburg, Virginia.

    And it's particular galling that many politicians opposed to abortion also oppose requiring medical insurance to cover birth control and won't support programs which help vulnerable women raise their children.

    When I was pregnant with Rebecca in 1966, a relative offered to pay for me to go to Sweden and have an abortion. I refused because I knew my child, and her father's child, would be special. I was right. My regret is giving her up.

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  10. OK, in the first place he is in favor of aborting pregnancies going seriously wrong in a life threatening way.

    "Well, you know, uh, people always want to try to make that as one of those things, ‘Well, how do you – how do you slice this particularly tough sort of ethical question.’

    Perfectly understandable political gibberish.

    “It seems to me, first of all, from what I understand from doctors, that’s really rare."

    Depending on the way you count, as percentage of all pregnancies, all abortions or even of all rapes (including male-on-male, female-on-male, female-on-female and so on), it is really, in the meaning of in reality, uncommon enough to be called rare, though not extremely rare or even very rare. He is just not admitting that it is still a serious issue. I mean grizzly bears are rare in the lower 48, but...

    " If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down."

    True statement, one of the miracles of pregnancy is that that is prevented from happening, that that is to the same degree the case with a decently married wife, praying for a baby, is obvious.

    “But let’s assume that maybe that didn’t work or something."

    Makes sense, the wording suggests he is a mother-hating misogynist, but it makes sense.

    " You know, I think there should be some punishment but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child.”

    Sounds reasonable again, he just does not tell whether fed dollars or state pennies should be used in helping the victim to preserve the evidence, until the alledged rapist has run out of appeals.

    This all sounds pretty sane to me, given he is a politician in a system, in which one can claim to be Pro-Life and Pro-Death Penalty at the same time, belonging to a party thinking Mitt Romney is a sound choice. He should not drop out and allow the people to do their Democratic duty.

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  11. I know there is nothing funny about rape, but Akin"s comment is just silly-sounds like he views female bodies as aliens from outer space. Does he know any women?To me, he just sounds like some clumsy man who has no knowledge of female physiology. Even though I don"t agree with him, I'm starting to feel sorry for him He's being used by a media looking for anyone to jump on and use as ammunition in their political fights. I say let's move on to the economy, Personally, I don't think abortion is very nice If a zygote or fetus or fertilized egg or whatever you want to call it manages to beat the astronomical odds(considering the number of sperm fighting to fertilize each egg) I say let it live We each have beat the odds and become individuals. Okay, I'm going to get attacked, I still think that this decision should be made by the woman and not dictated by the government and there are still going to be women who feel like they can't handle a child financially,emotionally etc-and it's not my place to judge anyone People think I am awful for giving up a child, and I have suffered for it but I'm not going to spend the rest of my limited days obsessing about it Life is much more precious the less there is ivleft Often it's the men who talk the women into an abortion Also, the message today is Just do it -you can always have an abortion Just my opinion

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  12. Last year, Ye Grand Protector of All Womenfolk Rep. Akin joined forces with GOP VP candidate Paul Ryan to co-sponsor the "No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act", which introduced the awesome new term "forcible rape" into our vernacular. Federal funds can only be used to pay for abortion in cases when a woman is raped; the "No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act" sought to chip away at that exception by clarifying that only pregnancies resulting from "forcible rape" would qualify for federally funded abortions. The true meaning of "forcible rape" was never clearly defined, and the term was eventually removed from the bill.

    from he Official Guide to Legitimate Rape at Jezebel. Just to good not to share.

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  13. Well the good news is Akin is still on the ballot. His Democrat opponent will be pleased.

    I am not sure that the vast majority of women who have abortions want to talk about it so I think it is hard to know how many of the women who have abortions have long term grief. I am sure many the ones who have subsequently never had children do have some second thoughts (just as they would if they had given their child up for adoption).

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  14. My thoughts on abortion are somewhere in the middle, as usual:-)

    I do feel it is a serious moral choice and kills a living being, it is not just a removal of tissue, and if done should be done early as possible. There have to be laws to limit when it can be done, except in cases of extreme birth defects where the child would not live anyhow. Early abortion should be easy to obtain, but given serious consideration, not used as birth control. Birth control and real sex education should be universal and free.

    I never considered abortion with any of my five pregnancies and still grieve a miscarriage at two months between my third and fourth child. But all were from loving relationships, including the eldest who was surrendered.

    That being said it is a highly personal choice and general laws ill suit difficult individual circumstances. Thank God I have never been raped or had to make such a dreadful and painful choice, but if I had been I think that early abortion would have been my choice, and would like to see the morning after pill and early abortion as backup easily available to all rape and incest victims. I feel it the lesser evil than to force a woman to carry a child under those circumstances, or to have a child grow up having come into the world that way, unless it is the mother's own clear choice to go through with the pregnancy and feel she can be at peace with either raising or surrendering the child.

    Nobody should try to make that choice for her, least of all the heartless and woman-hating politicians out there bloviating and spewing ignorant hot air in an election year. Yes, women can become pregnant from rape, we all know some this happened to, sad to say.

    I've just come back from Ireland and visiting my second cousins there, and have to say I retract my previous skepticism about belonging to a clan!:-) Hey, I was wrong, the Mannion clan is alive and well and so welcoming. It was truly a coming home to the farm where my grandfather was born.

    To get back to the topic at hand, the morning after pill is available from the chemist without prescription in Ireland, no questions asked. Although abortion is not yet legal there, the Church does not at all have the hold on things there as it did in the former years, and they are appalled by the Religious Right in the US.

    As to subject of my oldest child having been surrendered for adoption, and of course I told everyone the whole story, it was not even an issue, just all glad he is found and back in the family. at least from my point of view. I got all my fine lads "Fields of Athenry" tee shirts as gifts from the medieval town my grandfather came from. Blood does matter and it goes on no matter what troubles, heartbreaks, and separations intervene.

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  15. Even assuming we cannot know the ramifications of every abortion's longterm effect on women, surely if it led to the kind of trauma that first mothers report, it would be in the news because the right would be making hay over it. So to suppose that there is some hidden lurking post-trauma effect due to an abotion is wishful thinking on the part of the anti-choice crowd.

    But consider this: Since we know that giving up a child leads to a statistically significant number of them NEVER HAVING ANOTHER CHILD, we can assume that relinquishment trauma is rather overwhelming. That's the kind of information that social workers ought to be handing out to the young girls who keep agencies such as Bethany going. Hey: this might be your only baby. You might feel so torn by this act you will never feel it is right to hav another! Good luck...and please sign here on the dotted line.

    On another note, I happened to catch a few minutes of "Sixteen and Pregnant" the other night. Catelynn and Tyler were at a Bethany event talking to other young people there for the encouragement of giving up their babies. It seems that Catelynn was thinking of dropping out of school, or already had. We cannot look into the future but I would love to see how these two fare say, 10, 15 years from now. Will they still be shilling for Bethany? Still encouraging other teens to partipate in the transfer of children from one economic class to another? Still thrilled with their decision?

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  16. Just some more thoughts apropos of whatever... I heard a Tibetan monk once say"We must be careful to separate the fish from the sea" Could "Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater" be a variation of this? I just think that whatever life I am lucky enough to create(physically or psychologically), I am happy to nurture and give birth to. I deeply regret giving up my son for adoption because it hurt me greatly even though he turned out fine I DON'T regret giving birth to him,however

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  17. Yo ladies, anybody watching Girls on HBO? One episode features an abortion party--to celebrate it! So much for long term grief. This was instant relief.

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  18. The state of Texas, has just cut off
    funding for Planned Parenthood.
    But what's also scary is that most people at Yahoo, actually think
    this is going to save tax money.

    http://news.yahoo.com/planned-parenthood-awaits-funding-cutoff-texas-213120285.html

    This is one guys reply to a woman who's 16 year-old daughter got pregnant
    from rape!

    "As for what clinic your little girl can go to other than Planned parenthood: what do you want an abortion van to be sent to the scene? She or her parents (or you) might have to do a little research. Maybe even drive, take a bus etc.. Either way im sure there is a clinic somewhere that can help. But understand one thing... any help received even in such a terrible scenario as you described is charity and not a right. There is no law saying she should not have to pay for it herself. Regardless of how the circumstances came upon her they are hers now. She must stand up and deal with it. Thats just life."

    I am already seeing an extreme right wing take over. The comments
    in this yahoo article, are horrifying!

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  19. Viktoria, there are "happy bee-mommies" too. Abortion can have many very good causes, varying from being talked into it, undue pressure, prenatal euthanasia of a child doomed to die during birth, abortions of pregnancies going wrong, such circumstances do matter in how the mother experiences the procedure and the loss of her child. Like giving birth or a miscarriage, an abortion can cause what is usually known as a postnatal depression, and if that is not managed well, it can go really nasty. Granted, not every patient is affected, but minimizing the suffering of those mothers who do have a hard time dealing with their loss of their child, is just doing an Akin.

    (On the topic of US-pro-lifers, if you ask me they have often sold their soul to to the adoption industry.)

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  20. Theo:

    I'm just saying that the image of the girls on Girls on HBO is how many in the younger generation in America see abortion--no big deal. Obv. you are against it. Does anyone remember Gloria Steinem's comment--If men got pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament?

    Most of the anti-abortion leaders turn out to be men. Not their body, not their problem.

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  21. Moonstar, that girl seemed a hypothetical example, not a daughter to me.

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  22. @Maryanne 8/23 7:30 AM Welcome back My relatives are from Longford and Galway although I've never been there The last year I went to a St Patrick's day celebration with my parents before they died, the singer came over to our table and my Dad requested "Fields of Athenry" which he sang to us The funny thing is my niece has moved(voluntarily) to Australia. So, a fellow birthmother who's Irish What a coincidence.Not. My great-great grandfather was a Reilly Haha. Maybe I'm related to Bill O'Reilly.I sometimes watch his show because he reminds me of my Dad(looks something like him and has a lot of the same expressions and everything) Weird He even moved to the same town I live in(in the REALLY expensive part). Okay, I'm getting weird and seeing too many connections.Too much politics. By the way,I'm an Independent. Love it right before elections when all the politicians start sucking up to us and after the elections they all go back to their lying,thieving ways.

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  23. @anon 6:37

    Re "The Fields of Athenry" and Australia, the recession has hit Ireland very hard, and many young Irish people, including my cousin's son and his girlfriend, are leaving for Australia to find work. Once again the younger generation are bleeding out of Ireland in search of an economically better life. Very sad, especially for the parents left behind.

    As to the comments about a happy abortion party on some TV show, that is too tasteless to comment on. Just think of the outrage the same person might feel at a "so happy I gave up my child" party. Why mock another person's grief?

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  24. The girls on Girls are not mocking. They are celebrating relief at not having to have a baby at that time of their lives.

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  25. Viktoria: The idea of a happy abortion party portrayed on this TV show is offensive and mocking the seriousness of the choice of abortion, and trivializing the grief that some women feel about having aborted.

    This is not to say that abortion is always the wrong choice; in many cases it it not, and it should be up to the pregnant woman, but it is not a subject for casual humour any more than surrendering a child is. Some things are necessary given the circumstances, but not funny or a cause to celebrate.

    I find it strange that some who write here see every surrender as a total tragedy and every mother who is at all at peace with that choice as deluded, and yet feel free to dismiss any woman's grief about abortion as bogus or improbable. Each woman is different, each deals with and reacts to her choices and circumstances her own way. Can't others be granted that?

    By the way I deeply regret surrendering my child, but do not feel I can speak for every mother who has dealt with a crisis pregnancy in her own way.

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  26. "A woman's body is her own and it is her own to decide if she will or will not carry a fertilized egg to term, that is, have the baby." I agree, and with the first comment too, that even if she wants to raise a child conceived by rape - it should be HER CHOICE.

    I've got a number of friends who have had abortions and they all said they felt relief tinged with sadness, with relief being the predominant emotion. None of them have expressed regret about their decision, but it is clear they never felt was something to be "celebrated". The whole idea of an "abortion party" is sick and insupportable.

    I find it interesting that Dr John Willke, Founding Father of the Right to Life Movement and Todd Akin's "legitimate rape" source, equates abortion with slavery. See No. 28 at this link:
    http://www.lifejewels.excerptsofinri.com/life-jewels-vol-2.html
    Another invidious comparison from another extremist using guilt to garner support for his cause.

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  27. Betty, interesting that you bring that up because somewhere in my mind was the idea that Jack Wilke and the anti-abortion crusaders were behind the notion that a woman's body "shuts down" fertilization after rape. I wasn't able to find an exact quote but in the same Wilke Life Jewels, Vol. 5, No. 23, Rape Pregnancy, it says:
    "Forcible rape rarely causes a woman to become pregnant."

    See that phrase "forcible rape"? Looks like this idea came from the guy who started the right to life movement.

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  28. Life forces us into horrible choices sometimes, as when I thought I had to give up my son.I can't absolutely say that in today's climate if I was young and got pregnant against my will if someone offered me a pill that I wouldn't take it(I hope I wouldn't but don't know unless I was in that situation) The other kind of abortion is too horrifying to think about -I'm deathly afraid of doctors and procedures. My pregnancy wasn't unwelcome Basically I'm against abortion but for me the bottom line is it's a woman's choice I don't have any daughters but I do have nieces and a granddaughter and would be heartbroken if something awful happened to them because they were just young and stupid and got an illegal abortion As for the body shutting down a pregnancy from rape, the only thing I can think of is if it's just before ovulation there might be cross-talk with the stress hormones and this might prevent ovulation If she's already ovulated I don't see that it makes a difference But everything's connected so what do I know One of the scariest things about the media discussion for me is what's happening to free speech This guy was shut down so fast and his own supporters ran away faster than rats from a sinking ship Heck some of these politicians would probably perform the abortions themselves if they got more votes for it Okay If you don't like what he says just don't vote for him Sorry if I offended anyone I've been sick for a few weeks My sister thinks it was West Nile I had mosquito bites all over my neck and it hit me all of a sudden headache,fever less energy,but the worst part is feeling pressure all over my head and feeling like I'm out of my body I had to go to the supermarket and couldn't remember where the milk was, the eggs, not even the cat food I was so disoriented I couldn't remember how to move my leg to go to walk to the cat food aisle Well, I finally feel like I'm back in my body The only way to get through it is not to think about how I feel I felt like this once before when I was recovering from a bad flu It took about a month Again I apologize for some of my previous weird posts

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  29. Akin's gaffe really got around the world, I have here a full page on the topic from last Friday's "Nederlands Dagblad", (=Dutch Daily), it's a rather Christian paper, points out some Pro-Lifey defenders (Krason, Bomberger, Jor-El Godsey)of Akin, gives some data, gives some data, points out research from 2009, which suggests by the way that about 1 out of every 100 women has experienced pregnavy by rape, few enough to call it rare, way too many to dismiss them as unimportant. In a sidebar, the issue of false rape accusations, including the famous Norma McCorvey-case, is given attention.

    BTW. Viktoria, be careful with that statement, Steinem herself admitted she had it from a cab-driver (Irish woman). You might be talking to a grown up rape baby or somebody close to one, and they could take such a remark very personally.

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  30. Of course, Akin has denied the existence of people with known conceptions by rape in their ancestry, but as long as he helps keeping that sire of surrogate mother users out of the White House, it's OK with me.

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  31. Theodore,
    When you wrote "that sire of surrogate mother users," were your referring to Mitt Romney? His son Tagg and his wife had twins recently via a surrogate.

    Tagg and his wife have four other children. I'm wondering if the surrogate children were in response to the pressure by the LDS Church for couples to have as many children as they can afford in order to bring spirit children to earth and allow them to continue their journey.

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  32. Anybody else who could be intended? The plural was just poetically justified.
    Maybe, you are correct about the spirit children, which just goes to show that the Romneys might not be Christian enough, for an old stubborn Christian republican, maybe...

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  33. Theodore,
    Some Christian groups claim the Mormons are not Christians at all because they believe that God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are three separate beings, not a Trinity. They also believe there are multiple Gods, that their heavenly father was once a human and humans can become Gods.

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  34. I agree that there is no way that a well-informed mormon can be a christian, if for the determination the definition of a christian is a positive one excluding muslims, druzes, jews and so on. Nevertheless, one's religion should not be a reason to exclude one from running for office. If adoption reform/ suppression /rights for non-adopters are an issue for one's voting, voting a mormon into power might not be wise.

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  35. Well the Akin insanity spreads further than you might expect:

    Not only is there the Tom Smith issue, people are a bit too harsh to him.

    "Dutch Candidate Echoes Akin Rape Pregnancy Comment", This candidate is the Leader of the SGP. Mind you, if you think that for instance, Susan B. Anthony has some good points, but that you think her much too modern, you do not give your vote to the SGP, they are not conservative, they are recessive!
    They have been against women voting from their founding in 1918until 1989, at which point they allowed women associated with their party to decide for themselves, whether their conscience allowed them to make the trip to the polling station.

    Women still are not allowed to represent the party in councils and parliament. Women have been gradually becoming members since 1984, for instance women got the right to help the male members with thinking in 1996, not the right to help deciding anything.

    OK, a party fighting with the support of each female members and voters to keep its own women from any political power at all, really agrees with your Republican oddball...
    What does this tell us about Republicans?



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  36. The SGP-leader has been assigned some (body)guards now, some people seem to get very angry about the abortion thingy.

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  37. Analysis of the conversation shows that the SGP-case is rather suurprising and mostly the case of bad reporting, the SGP-leader had an interview, and a called in question got the issue on abortion. With all the news coverage on Akin's gaffe, Kees van der Staaij got asked a short series about questions, starting with whether he thought rape pregnancy rare and ending with whether he thought there was a special mechanism protecting raped women from pregnancy. He confirmed "that that was a fact" (referring to the rarity), but that rape pregnancy self was a real a tragic reality, and that unborn rape pregnancies should be protected. This however provided a cut (last question, start of the answer) making him sound like he believed in Akin's version of biology.
    On the other hand, this party is the one in the Netherlands most likely to support capital punishment for rape.

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